My Abstract Shapes

[Captainnumber36]

What the actual fuck?

Are you visiting us from the past? Did you come to the 21st century in a time machine? More importantly, when are you going back?



Perhaps you have a fetish, I see you've titled another one of your squiggles "Tran-Man."



Well, kudos to you for asking - I guess.

But it isn't our job to educate you on how to treat trans folks like human beings.

You should want to learn on your own because you see us as human beings and you respect all human beings. Unless you don't.

"In reference to [your] picture" I think you ought to follow @Artyczar's advice. They are more diplomatic than I am. If that squiggle reminds you of a woman, then say it reminds you of a woman.

But it's idiotic and offensive for you to say it "reminds" you of a trans woman. Or a black woman or an Asian woman or an old woman or a young woman. It's just a poorly drawn torso, it doesn't even have a fucking head. Don't women have heads in your world? It looks like evidence collected from a serial killer's house after they're arrested.

Ugh.

Well, I accidently used an outdated term and meant no offense and was in fact celebrating such folks. I feel offended by your words and as if you have attempted to put me and my art down by using foul language, assuming that because I draw such persons I have a fetish for such persons, not that there would be anything wrong with that, and calling my art squiggles. I can post future works to this thread.

Thanks for the response and not banning me.

 

[Captainnumber36]

I don't know; it's your work. I don't know why it would remind you of a trans woman. Why not just a woman? I don't know what about this image would make it seem like a woman that was male at birth for you, so it is yours to interpret, not me. I can see it resembling a woman because of its shape.

I see your point, that you feel I am singling out such persons and making them feel different, but all I meant was it reminds me of someone that was identified by medical staff as a male at birth and discovered she was a woman all along and has begun to express that on the outside. I see it as celebratory and am deeply sorry if I offended you or anyone else.

Thanks for being understanding and for taking the time to post the helpful links, especially the second one.

If future works remind me of this particular population, I will be sure to try to use the proper terminology. Again, I apologize, but it won't stop me from seeing what my works make me think of but I will be better about my language.



Cheers,
Captain.

 

[Captainnumber36]

I also thank you for merging the threads and creating one big one, Hannah. I do post a lot of work! It's nice to have a single spot for it. I wasn't sure if it would be problematic to post so many individual threads, but now that I know it is, it's nice to know you have made a single spot for my work.

Thanks,
Captain.

 

[Captainnumber36]

This one doesn’t remind me of anything, but it looks neat to me.

 

[Captainnumber36]

I also want to note, I knew I was testing the waters when I stated my image reminded me of a trans-woman (but using the imprper term by accident) in that I feel this population is still taboo to discuss. But I went ahead with it because I feel we shouldn't be ashamed or embarrassed by such folks.

Is it ok to discuss/post adult themes on this site?

 

[Captainnumber36]

I think a lot of my work is very sexually explicit, even that last one I drew is to me now. But if this type of work isn't alright with this board, I won't post it here.

My art is very celebratory of our sexual selves, to me and several others at least.

 

[ErikRak]

What the actual fuck?

Are you visiting us from the past? Did you come to the 21st century in a time machine? More importantly, when are you going back?



Perhaps you have a fetish, I see you've titled another one of your squiggles "Tran-Man."



Well, kudos to you for asking - I guess.

But it isn't our job to educate you on how to treat trans folks like human beings.

You should want to learn on your own because you see us as human beings and you respect all human beings. Unless you don't.

"In reference to [your] picture" I think you ought to follow @Artyczar's advice. They are more diplomatic than I am. If that squiggle reminds you of a woman, then say it reminds you of a woman.

But it's idiotic and offensive for you to say it "reminds" you of a trans woman. Or a black woman or an Asian woman or an old woman or a young woman. It's just a poorly drawn torso, it doesn't even have a fucking head. Don't women have heads in your world? It looks like evidence collected from a serial killer's house after they're arrested.

Ugh.

Hannah, I understand the frustration but in this specific case I'm not sure so much aggressivity will help people to use the right words ... I'm new here but I feel most of us try to do the best to respect each other . You've created with Ayin a safe place for us all, and a great place for artists ... we are thankful for that. And respectful.

 

[Artyczar]

I see your point, that you feel I am singling out such persons and making them feel different, but all I meant was it reminds me of someone that was identified by medical staff as a male at birth and discovered she was a woman all along and has begun to express that on the outside. I see it as celebratory and am deeply sorry if I offended you or anyone else.

Thanks for being understanding and for taking the time to post the helpful links, especially the second one.

If future works remind me of this particular population, I will be sure to try to use the proper terminology. Again, I apologize, but it won't stop me from seeing what my works make me think of but I will be better about my language.



Cheers,
Captain.

I never said anything about my feelings. I never said anything about you singling anyone out and making them feel different. I said it's your work and it can look to you any way you choose. You just can't use discriminatory language here. Please read the forum rules. I only made a suggestion that your drawing could look like a woman and not a trans woman. Maybe that was how I saw it, which is my choice.

 

[Artyczar]

I also want to note, I knew I was testing the waters when I stated my image reminded me of a trans-woman (but using the imprper term by accident) in that I feel this population is still taboo to discuss. But I went ahead with it because I feel we shouldn't be ashamed or embarrassed by such folks.

Is it ok to discuss/post adult themes on this site?

You were testing the waters? What does that even mean?

And how is the LGBTQ+ community "taboo" to discuss? That is really strange for you to say!

It is NOT an "adult theme."

 

[Artyczar]

I also want to say, though I can not speak for Hannah (she has her own feelings and reactions and that's her choice in this matter), but being trans myself, and the site having two trans owners by the way, I didn't have to send this person, or anyone, to a link with the appropriate terminology for the LGBTQ+ community in this case. It is NOT MY JOB as a trans person to educate others on how to conduct themselves, nor is it Hannah's. No one should have to watch themselves in their reactions to reading people's ignorance in order/hopes they will then use the correct words instead of offensive ones.

 

[Hannah]

I feel offended by your words...

Now you know how I felt.

celebrating such folks

You keep saying that, and I have to tell you that it's weird.

I don't want to speak for all trans people, but I suppose I will anyway when I say say that we don't need to be "celebrated" by you. We would settle for you learning how to stop insulting us. Have you heard of "allyship"? Check it out. Hip yourself to the jive, daddy-o! Come swing with us and stop working against us.

I don't think you mean any harm, or have any bad intentions. But today is a good day to start to get with the times, my friend. I have faith in you.

you have attempted to put me and my art down [...] calling my art squiggles.

Forgive me, you're absolutely right, I was putting your art down, and you didn't deserve that.

Everyone should make art. Whatever art means to you, you should do it. Everyone should play music too, and write poetry, and sing while they do the dishes. Life is short.

 

[Captainnumber36]

I never said anything about my feelings. I never said anything about you singling anyone out and making them feel different. I said it's your work and it can look to you any way you choose. You just can't use discriminatory language here. Please read the forum rules. I only made a suggestion that your drawing could look like a woman and not a trans woman. Maybe that was how I saw it, which is my choice.

You didn't state your inner thoughts explicitly, but it can be implied from your response. The use of improper terminology that offends people does serve to single the vulnerable population out and make them feel attacked for being unique.

What else would be wrong with using such language? It's implied from your response.

I used outdated terminology, which can be seen as derogatory in the current political climate. But I apologized and you have not reciprocated my acknowledgement that I meant to celebrate such individuals as yourself, and was not attempting to be offensive. The difference is all in my motivation, and you and Hannah are unwilling to be understanding of that.

I do think if you have a preffered term to go by, (which isn't the same for all folks with similar backgrounds btwI) you should make it known AND SHOULD educate folks on it; not everyone uses the most recent terminology even if they are experiencing a similar situation.

 

[Captainnumber36]

Now you know how I felt.



You keep saying that, and I have to tell you that it's weird.

I don't want to speak for all trans people, but I suppose I will anyway when I say say that we don't need to be "celebrated" by you. We would settle for you learning how to stop insulting us. Have you heard of "allyship"? Check it out. Hip yourself to the jive, daddy-o! Come swing with us and stop working against us.

I don't think you mean any harm, or have any bad intentions. But today is a good day to start to get with the times, my friend. I have faith in you.

G

Forgive me, you're absolutely right, I was putting your art down, and you didn't deserve that.

Everyone should make art. Whatever art means to you, you should do it. Everyone should play music too, and write poetry, and sing while they do the dishes. Life is short.

I'm not TRYING to be a voice for a population I don't represent in my own experience, but do philosophically, but was by default. I think it's rather selfish that you believe it's weird for me to represent this population in my art, when I'm not part of the population by experience, but philosophically agree and am sensitive to their circumstance.

 

[Captainnumber36]

My only crime was a mistake of using a term that offended you. Your response, Hannah, was quite rude and aggressive. I think it's important to note that folks of the trans population may prefer the term transvestite, depending on their age.

That's very important to remember.

 

[Captainnumber36]

My using that term was inspired by The Rockey Horror Picture Show, btw.

 

[Captainnumber36]

Hannah, I did not try to offend someone, you did. Are you proud of that?

 

[Hannah]

Well, that didn't work.

derogatory in the current political climate.

There it is!

Bye.

 

[Ayin Es]

All people have the right to refrain from explaining, arguing, defending, discussing or otherwise attempting to appeal to anyone for improved behavior.

 

[Hannah]

To be clear, captain squiggles is not taking a permanent time-out in the next county because he argued or disagreed. I was not nice to him, and he had every right to argue (I thought I apologized, but I'm probably not the best judge of that).

He's gone because he tried to wrap up my and Artczar's identities and existence in "current politics." That transparent attempt at misdirection is not going to work with your unapologetically queer hosts.

I'm not someone who goes around looking for ways to be offended, trust me. But when people "accidentally" insult queer people over and over again (on purpose), it's just another way to hate.

 

[Terri]