How do you all feel about the art market these days?

[Artyczar]

I never minded Lichtenstein, as those works were very much hand crafted, but I didn't like how he repeated that stuff throughout his entire life.

I became disgusted by Lichtenstein when I discovered that not only was he inspired by but blatantly stole the images of poor comic book artists.

Lichtenstein was smart enough to never lift images from Marvel or DC or Disney or any other big-name publisher with deep pockets. Instead, he stole images from smaller comics on war and romance. He never acknowledged... let alone reimbursed the artists whose images he stole.

If he straight up stole, which I never knew, and didn't just appropriate, then he should have been sued into oblivion.

 

[stlukesguild]

It could well be said that what those wealthy taste dictators are engaging in is ARTIFICE and not ART. But again, that's just my personal opinion. I'm with the guy who ate the banana.

Or the guy who returned Duchamp's "Fountain" to its original purpose by urinating in it?

 

[E.J.H.]

If he straight up stole, which I never knew, and didn't just appropriate, then he should have been sued into oblivion.

Who was that established artist that stole the characters from the Simpsons for use in one of his works more or less recently? Think I heard about it on this forum (I remember the image, but don't have a good memory for names). In my eyes a quite blatant ripp-off (obviously the artist who designed and drew the Simpsons characters did not see a penny).

 

[16ga]

Who was that established artist that stole the characters from the Simpsons for use in one of his works more or less recently? Think I heard about it on this forum (I remember the image, but don't have a good memory for names). In my eyes a quite blatant ripp-off (obviously the artist who designed and drew the Simpsons characters did not see a penny).

Do you mean this one?

A Tracing Of Bill Morrison's Artwork Sold For $15 Million — He Received No Credit Or Compensation

Bill Morrison is the latest comic artist whose artwork made someone else rich.

www.cartoonbrew.com

 

[Bartc]

Do you mean this one?

A Tracing Of Bill Morrison's Artwork Sold For $15 Million — He Received No Credit Or Compensation

Bill Morrison is the latest comic artist whose artwork made someone else rich.

www.cartoonbrew.com

OMG, is that blatant exploitation or what? I'll repeat my original question: "What is wrong with the art market" that it both takes this crap seriously and rewards blatant plagiarism handsomely to boot? I like a good comic artist doing his/her message, story or parody. It's not my idea of "fine art", but it's definitely art that can be appreciated for what it is. And as for "message art", which I don't enjoy (just my personal taste, nothing more), a good comic take on society and such I do appreciate. So now we add pretty obvious theft to gimmickry for high prices. Jeez..... I'm frosted that the museum and auction world promotes this.

 

[john]

I think it was the Buddha said something like " There is no good or bad, it is how we look at it that makes it so"

We are lucky as artists. When all the outside world has seemingly gone crazy we can escape into our own art world.

I'm always amazed how transported I feel when working on a painting. Art market? What art market?

 

[Artyczar]

I'm not sure how Kaws got away with it, but I'm sure they claimed parody. That is allowed to certain degrees. That's also something that would have to be dealt with in the courts. The Simson's is also not really considered fine art as it is considered a work-for-hire, "pop culture," so I would think that's also something Kaws can use as a "defense," like Warhol's soup cans. I'm not advocating for Kaws at all. I've seen blatant parodies on Hello Kitty and all kinds of other things out there. It doesn't make it ethically right, but it might slither by in a court of law, depending. There is a fine line between appropriation and plagiarism. I don't know who exactly draws those lines. I myself have created characters based on Mickey Mouse, the Let it Be album cover, real silent movie posters, and other things. I never worried about it, but I'm sure someone somewhere had issues with it. I never even got a cease-and-desist letter. I once got one for having the domain name ebayartist.com and ebaypaintings.com, but there was nothing they could do other than try to scare me. Nothing came of it and I had every right to own those urls. (I don't anymore BTW, but I used to own over 200 different domain names.)

 

[Bartc]

Arty, it sounds like you've had some fun in your time! Parody is legal, so I'm often told. Yes, that line can be fuzzy.
Here's one that makes me sure someone is laughing all the way (though the claim is not to the bank):

'BART Basel' guerrilla art pranksters take over SF public transit

More than 100 people took part in the unsanctioned, roaming stunt.

www.sfgate.com

 

[AES]

It really does look like these people will buy anything. So, hypothetically, how might one get "in" with these types?
Because I need money lol

Arty, it sounds like you've had some fun in your time! Parody is legal, so I'm often told. Yes, that line can be fuzzy.
Here's one that makes me sure someone is laughing all the way (though the claim is not to the bank):

'BART Basel' guerrilla art pranksters take over SF public transit

More than 100 people took part in the unsanctioned, roaming stunt.

www.sfgate.com

Now this is cool.

 

[john]

Oh it was Shakespeare

"There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so." Hamlet

William Shakespeare


Pauline says it well

Qualities such as good or bad, weak or strong are not inherent within the object, rather they are projections of the mind, dependent upon how the mind chooses to perceive the object.

Pauline Marshall

 

[Artyczar]

Arty, it sounds like you've had some fun in your time! Parody is legal, so I'm often told. Yes, that line can be fuzzy.
Here's one that makes me sure someone is laughing all the way (though the claim is not to the bank):

'BART Basel' guerrilla art pranksters take over SF public transit

More than 100 people took part in the unsanctioned, roaming stunt.

www.sfgate.com

A good friend of mine went to the Chicago School of Arts and told me how the performing Arts department would put all kinds of stunts like this together out in the street. They sounded interesting. Regular people would be so confused, but entertained. It's interesting I think, but it's nothing new since "happenings" like this were done a lot in the 60s. But each generation likes to put their own spin on it.

 

[Bartc]

Oh yes, I do indeed remember happenings. And that's what I think of when I see the immersive Van Gogh stuff: another light show, just better done. It's performance art of a sort. Not my taste, but some of you might get a kick out of it anyway.
And speaking of blowing in the wind, it appears that old Bobby Dylan is quite the accomplished artist, one of many performers who also happened to be handy with a brush:

See Bob Dylan's Cinematic Paintings, Welded Sculptures and More

A comprehensive collection of the iconic songwriter's visual art is on display for the first time in the United States

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[stlukesguild]

There is a fine line between appropriation and plagiarism. I don't know who exactly draws those lines.

It is the lawyers and courts that draw those lines. Usually, it is those with the deepest pockets who come out on top. In many of these instances of appropriation/plagiarism the "fine artists" (Koons, Hirst, Lichtenstein, etc...) backed up by high-powered galleries and wealthy collectors are able to crush any complaints by the poor artist/illustrator.

 

[Artyczar]

Oh yes, I do indeed remember happenings. And that's what I think of when I see the immersive Van Gogh stuff: another light show, just better done. It's performance art of a sort. Not my taste, but some of you might get a kick out of it anyway.
And speaking of blowing in the wind, it appears that old Bobby Dylan is quite the accomplished artist, one of many performers who also happened to be handy with a brush:

See Bob Dylan's Cinematic Paintings, Welded Sculptures and More

A comprehensive collection of the iconic songwriter's visual art is on display for the first time in the United States

www.smithsonianmag.com

Thanks for sending this link. I really enjoyed seeing those paintings!

 

[musket]

I'm very familiar. It was a very Duchamp message in my opinion.

I never minded Lichetenstein, as those works were very much hand crafted, but I didn't like how he repeated that stuff throughout his entire life.

The Michael Jackson with the monkey was not something I followed. It was just a very well-known piece in the contemporary art world that was plastered all over the place, like Damien Hirst's shark--in the magazines and all over the internet. "All the Rage." Yuck. It was purposely gawdy with gold leaf.

View attachment 14381

Hirst's shark (in case you've never seen it):

View attachment 14382

Lichtenstein stole most of his stuff from comic book artists who as I understand it got no credit or compensation. Complete plagiarism.

 

[Artyczar]

Lichtenstein stole most of his stuff from comic book artists who as I understand it got no credit or compensation. Complete plagiarism.

View attachment 14723

SLG already made this point.

 

[musket]

Oh, sorry, didn't see it.

 

[Artyczar]

Oh, sorry, didn't see it.

No problem!

 

[Mississippi Hippie]

An NFT OMG if someone can explain that... omg I’m dying