M
Martin C
Hey, what's WWII? 
go back to art school
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Bartc
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Ayin, I learned this stuff from the kids. I assiduously avoid texting and my former staff and my whole family of any age have had their ears burned by me about this noxious medium. Not being "with it" has been my lifelong posture. I don't give a flying shit about what's popular, the latest trends, etc. It's just a shorthand to use those abbreviations. Sometimes it's the way to avoid totally offending the even more sensitive - WTF being a case in point - a way to say it without speaking the "forbidden" words. Please don't take it as anything of any importance nor can it ever be a reflection of you or anyone who doesn't use the abbreviations.
Artyczar
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I knew that was coming. Like I said...despised.Hey, what's WWII?
Soon, I'll just forget about the rules I made on MY forum. All of you can do whatever the hell you want and I'll shut up.
Carry on.
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I appreciate that you meant to be funny, but the no-abbreviations rule exists to help all of us. I didn't know what Bart meant by IME either, and none of us should be made to feel ignorant or out of touch by having to ask.Hey, what's WWII?
The rule exists for that. It's a simple request. Please respect it unless we're told otherwise.
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@Terri is more diplomatic than I am. I see that jab as trolling, so I'll just say, 'stop it.'
The "no abbreviations" rule is a no uncommon abbreviations rule:
Please do not use uncommon acronyms unless you define them in parentheses. Every time. Remember, we don't want anyone to feel excluded. And really, why use uncommon abbreviations in the first place? Type out the words. DBL (don’t be lazy)!
When in doubt, type the words. Communicate. Don't send us to Google to try to understand what you're talking about.
Every rule we have is there to make the forum accessible to everyone. If you can't get with that, you're not our kind of people, so you should find another forum whose rules you agree with. Via con dios! Or in language you might understand, GTFO.
16ga
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I think the problem is that whats considered uncommon for one person might be considered common for another.
M
Martin C
Talk about overreaction. GSOH required. Bye!
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You're not wrong.
I don't think anyone is out to upset anyone else; but it's easy enough to just type stuff out. I've been on google many times trying to understand acronyms and it's a PIT.... well, you get me, right? I'd look that up, but it's probably not well intentioned.
Bartc
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Listen, I'm incredibly sorry that I slipped into acronyms. Never meant to exclude anyone nor to make anyone feel bad, ignorant, or anything else negative. Let's all let it drop and I'll try to be more careful in future. We don't need an argument over this. Let's argue about art, instead.
ZenDruid
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I got a BA in political science, but no art. Later, at another local college, I took two credited classes in life drawing and sculpture. I also casually studied basic oil painting with a private tutor. I learned photography at an early age from my father and photo hobby magazines. Those gave me the foundation to proceed on my own. I don't see any advantage to an art school today, or any college, except for the name recognition and making contacts that might help professionally. I had a friend who graduated from the Kansas City Art Institute, apparently he didn't make any good contacts, he ended up working for me briefly in a furniture repair/refinishing shop. Today, there are so many tutorials on YouTube, Pinterest and the internet in general, one could educate oneself to the level of a doctorate, if one really thought that was necessary. I knew very little about art history, painting materials and techniques, before I came here. Still don't, but whenever one of you mentions an artist, technique or material I'm not familiar with, I immediately do a google search to see what I'm missing. So, thanks!!
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Bartc
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ZenD, I don't mean to imply that going to college or any trade school is worthless. Just that degrees tend to be exaggerated in importance. (Schools "sell sheepskins" after all. )
Good instructors teach thinking skills along with specific content, and in some courses actual working skills. Those are valuable regardless of where one obtains them. Yes, I could learn physics, math, English, plumbing and wiring, music appreciation, art history and just about anything online today. But I wouldn't say that this will always substitute for practice and discussion with a GOOD instructor.
So many of us artists are essentially "self-taught". More often what we seem to mean is that we're self-directed learners, but we do suck up info from others constantly, whether by instruction or observation or both.
I drew all the time from when I was a little kid. Sometimes serious, sometimes cartoons, sometimes doodles. But just trying was a serious enough foundation. Not everyone does that by any means, and too many think that it's impossible for them to learn (when it isn't), so they don't really do as well without direct instruction, practice, and those disciplines that go with courses. If Art School is what you need, then I say do it. If you just need art (small A) instruction or workshops, then by all means do it. Whatever gets you there is valuable.
Good instructors teach thinking skills along with specific content, and in some courses actual working skills. Those are valuable regardless of where one obtains them. Yes, I could learn physics, math, English, plumbing and wiring, music appreciation, art history and just about anything online today. But I wouldn't say that this will always substitute for practice and discussion with a GOOD instructor.
So many of us artists are essentially "self-taught". More often what we seem to mean is that we're self-directed learners, but we do suck up info from others constantly, whether by instruction or observation or both.
I drew all the time from when I was a little kid. Sometimes serious, sometimes cartoons, sometimes doodles. But just trying was a serious enough foundation. Not everyone does that by any means, and too many think that it's impossible for them to learn (when it isn't), so they don't really do as well without direct instruction, practice, and those disciplines that go with courses. If Art School is what you need, then I say do it. If you just need art (small A) instruction or workshops, then by all means do it. Whatever gets you there is valuable.
ZenDruid
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Oh I agree with you Bart, no problem. After the army, my college degree was a ticket into the civilian job market. It meant that I successfully swallowed and regurgitated a curriculum for four years that had little to do with real life. I was a trained employee. But not really, my career path has been very random.
I have a teenage grand-daughter who somehow learned the manga/anime drawing style and is quite good at it. Today she's enrolled in a magnet arts high school in Nashville, Tennessee. I wish her well.
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Joy
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I happened across this thread, likely in procrastination of painting something that I will self critique excessively. I am a "recreational painter" and quite out of my league here compared to most of the works posted on the forum. The extraordinary artists here that are supporting themselves with art, are self-educated (or both) have my utmost admiration. Like so many, I based my education on the ability to made a living.
Hannah and Ayin have these rules in place to make CS an accessible site for all. In many forums, but particularly art sites, members may not have English as their first language, so abbreviations would be a source of confusion. I have posted on non English art forums, and have had to look up quite a bit! That said, this is an English speaking forum, and there are common abbreviations in any language.
Ayin and Hannah, I appreciate that you are considering the needs of the forum and its members and attempting to be dynamic with your forum and your rules. With other art forums, art related abbreviations are common, even though they would have no place or understanding in, say, a baseball forum that would have its own unique acronyms.
Ayin, perhaps I am overly sensitive to the feelings of others, so I feel that your description of yourself in a self-deprecating way because you do not recognize many acronyms is in no way related to your intelligence and artistic ability! Just because (often abbreviated as b/c) you don't recognize an acronym hardly means you are "dense"! In medicine, we have an incredible amount of acronyms that have to be memorized, as the medical terms written out were too long. When I started, all chart notes were hand written and they were used for brevity and to save time.
Often, humor comes across as mean spirited in writing. We appreciate having this forum and the work that you do.
Like many others, I had to look up that meant "Good Sense of Humor". As was noted, what is a common abbreviation to some may not be to others. I am sure that many of us have used them at times, and I apologize if I sometimes copy/paste my post from another art forum here.
Hannah and Ayin have these rules in place to make CS an accessible site for all. In many forums, but particularly art sites, members may not have English as their first language, so abbreviations would be a source of confusion. I have posted on non English art forums, and have had to look up quite a bit! That said, this is an English speaking forum, and there are common abbreviations in any language.
Ayin and Hannah, I appreciate that you are considering the needs of the forum and its members and attempting to be dynamic with your forum and your rules. With other art forums, art related abbreviations are common, even though they would have no place or understanding in, say, a baseball forum that would have its own unique acronyms.
Ayin, perhaps I am overly sensitive to the feelings of others, so I feel that your description of yourself in a self-deprecating way because you do not recognize many acronyms is in no way related to your intelligence and artistic ability! Just because (often abbreviated as b/c) you don't recognize an acronym hardly means you are "dense"! In medicine, we have an incredible amount of acronyms that have to be memorized, as the medical terms written out were too long. When I started, all chart notes were hand written and they were used for brevity and to save time.
Often, humor comes across as mean spirited in writing. We appreciate having this forum and the work that you do.
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Bartc
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Tends to be true to some degree with some degrees, but far from all. Too many jobs listed requiring degrees where only skill and/or willingness to learn is quite enough! In fact, many of our most successful entrepreneurs don't have degrees. But with myself and my own kids and people I work with or who ask, I do always recommend getting that "entry union card" that a degree confers, even if it's meaningless in any other way.
One thing I refuse to accept is the notion that any degree will ever confer creativity, however. So a degree in Art may well certify that you have learned a lot about art and about how to produce art, but how can it ever imply creativity, originality, etc.? Good luck with that.
Again, I have no truck with those who do go for the degree. I have expectations that they do know more than those who haven't studied about some things. And it's very clear to me that the major art market, museums, galleries certainly value that "union card".
One of my painting buddies, who makes his living the hard way via paintings, was a sidewalk entrepreneur for a dozen years with his paintings, before he took himself back to Art School for an MFA. Certainly he learned a lot more. Whatever floats your boat.
Joy
Contributing Member
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I forgot to mention a great YouTube channel I found about art history, if I may post the link here. It is Great Art Explained, and it discusses great works of art in 15 minutes. It is immensely popular, even for those who never had an interest in art. He packs so much info in the videos they seem longer, but in a good way!
Artyczar
Moderator
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I happened across this thread, likely in procrastination of painting something that I will self critique excessively. I am a "recreational painter" and quite out of my league here compared to most of the works posted on the forum. The extraordinary artists here that are supporting themselves with art, are self-educated (or both) have my utmost admiration. Like so many, I based my education on the ability to made a living.
Like many others, I had to look up that meant "Good Sense of Humor". As was noted, what is a common abbreviation to some may not be to others. I am sure that many of us have used them at times, and I apologize if I sometimes copy/paste my post from another art forum here.
Hannah and Ayin have these rules in place to make CS an accessible site for all. In many forums, but particularly art sites, members may not have English as their first language, so abbreviations would be a source of confusion. I have posted on non English art forums, and have had to look up quite a bit! That said, this is an English speaking forum, and there are common abbreviations in any language.
Ayin and Hannah, I appreciate that you are considering the needs of the forum and its members and attempting to be dynamic with your forum and your rules. With other art forums, art related abbreviations are common, even though they would have no place or understanding in, say, a baseball forum that would have its own unique acronyms.
Ayin, perhaps I am overly sensitive to the feelings of others, so I feel that your description of yourself in a self-deprecating way because you do not recognize many acronyms is in no way related to your intelligence and artistic ability! Just because (often abbreviated as b/c) you don't recognize an acronym hardly means you are "dense"! In medicine, we have an incredible amount of acronyms that have to be memorized, as the medical terms written out were too long. When I started, all chart notes were hand written and they were used for brevity and to save time.
Often, humor comes across as mean spirited in writing. We appreciate having this forum and the work that you do.
Hi Joy, I really appreciate your post here. It means a lot to me. Seriously.
THANK YOU!To quote the rule on the About page: "Please do not use uncommon acronyms unless you define them in parentheses." The bold part is mine.
I'm sure some people have different definitions of what is and isn't "uncommon" and I appreciate that there are many art-related abbreviations out there, but personally, I've been on the internet, and even was on Wet Canvas for at least 20 years alone, and still do not recognize or perhaps I don't remember all the art-related acronyms. I have to resort to saying I'm "dense" because when I try to enforce the rule, I am up against a lot of resistance and outright being made fun of, which I just do not appreciate at all.
It offends me on several levels to ask me what WWII means, which I don't have to defend as a common abbreviation or a time in history we should never forget. (Yet here I am defending myself!) Not only that, I'd just posted a long thing about my history being self-taught, and my father fighting in that war, etc. It was a shitty joke in my opinion, and well, was it funny/not funny? Not to me, as much as I tried to be a good sport about his irony.
I do have a sense of humor, so I didn't care that I was told that I didn't have one. That I found funnier than his original joke. And yes, I had to look up his acronym for it, which I'm sure is what he wanted on his way out of here. Anyway, all it did was drive me off the forum for days and made me wonder about the rule in the first place/why I try so hard. Did I come to any conclusions? No. I'm just moving on and getting back to my art as best I can.
I think all people can be sensitive about certain things, and we all have our reasons, but that is NOT the reason backing the initial rule, just so you all know.
foxthegoldrushfox
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Exact thoughts here
