Undeserving BS

No!! No!! Not BS at all. I for one understand well what you accomplish with your abstractions. When I said that that wall in and of itself is more meaningful (“better”) for than that Frankenthaler, I meant it. When I look at an abstract piece I do NOT try to see objects in there, something that many humans tend to do (including, with all due respect, member on this site).
Wayne suggested here that he’d like to paint like the image of that wall. Me too!
Thanks for that. (y)
In my case it isn't so much a case of wanting to paint the wall, but to try and show what it means to me. My language skills are too crude to express that feeling properly in words, which is probably why I have to make paintings and sculptures.
 
Thanks for that. (y)
In my case it isn't so much a case of wanting to paint the wall, but to try and show what it means to me. My language skills are too crude to express that feeling properly in words, which is probably why I have to make paintings and sculptures.
Well, Hermes, you touched here something that I think about quite often when I see something like that short video that started this thread: the opposite of your means of self expression. Why bother with canvas and paint?
 
Well, Hermes, you touched here something that I think about quite often when I see something like that short video that started this thread: the opposite of your means of self expression. Why bother with canvas and paint?
Well, art theory isn't my field of expertise, so all I can do is keep fumbling about while enjoying myself as much as I can in the process. I know very well that I am extremely fortunate in being financially independent and for me art isn't a means to pay the bills.
 
Well, art theory isn't my field of expertise, so all I can do is keep fumbling about while enjoying myself as much as I can in the process. I know very well that I am extremely fortunate in being financially independent and for me art isn't a means to pay the bills.
Same here, Hermès!
 
I do it basically for myself. However, the need to have others see it is there…..
 
Three things Arty:
1. If you read what I had today about Frankenthaler again you’ll notice that I ended up with my opinion.
2. Kids around the English speaking world use the word restarted regularly. Unfortunately.
3. I came here to enjoy being here. If I stopped enjoying I’ll say goodbye. No problem.

Your original post is your opinion. Yes. It's an opinionated stance. You must recognize that, no? You even announced you expected some opposition. If me having an opposing view about Frankenthaler makes you want to leave or changes your enjoyment in participating, I am very sorry about this. That makes me very sad. :(

As far as kids using this mental disabilities slur regularly, that does not make it okay for you to use it. To further address your other post about you feeling too old and experienced to be told what to do, I feel I'm too nice a person to be dismissed as someone who would "lecture" you about anything. However, you probably shouldn't be so set in your ways as to just ignore what it is to be human and sensitive to others.

I don't see this as being up for a "vote" by you or anyone else. It's just an antiquated way of speaking, like any other insensitive word to describe people who are different from you/us. I'm absolutely sure you know what this feels like.
 
Read again the context in which retarded was mentioned. Read it it for God’s sake.
As for my views, you are lecturing again.
Don’t you think that enough is enough?!?..
 
Read again the context in which retarded was mentioned. Read it it for God’s sake.
As for my views, you are lecturing again.
Don’t you think that enough is enough?!?..
What are you talking about? I am responding to your posts. Not lecturing. And I am responding as the owner of this site as well. Not just to you but for the sake of everyone reading this. It does not matter what context you used the word. You can not use the word! It's not up for debate.
 
You can use it in the context of music. Not in the context in referring to someone who might be mentally disabled.
 
No place for such a description.
If its up to me to pick between you and keep this behaving, i would throw you away no matter who or what are you, if you enjoy here or not it is your problem.
Its not even need to be open to disscution, the net is full with places for this kind of descriptions and you welcome to visit them.
I would even prefer to loose the whole subscribers if they stick to you rather than give a stage to this kind of behave.
To be and lives with disability is not a choice !!!!!!!!
 
The discussion about words that are okay to use here needs to be summed up and made clear for those who don't completely understand it or choose to ignore it. Anyone who feels that we're beating a dead horse is welcome to that opinion, but this still applies to you.

As you may have noticed, when it comes to common, expressive language, we don't care what kind of language you use. We don't give a shit, I might say by way of example.

However...

No matter how old, conservative, or "set in your ways" you may be, you may not come in here and insult or degrade anyone with insensitive or intentionally provocative language.

I'm talking about protected classes or protected groups or whatever term you want to apply. If those terms trigger you, the way politically correct apparently might, you'll have to work out your feelings about that elsewhere.

Included in those protected classes are mental disabilities. That means we don't allow the use of insensitive or intentionally provocative language to talk about people with mental disabilities here.

Other groups you may not use insensitive or intentionally provocative language to discuss are racial groups, religious groups, people of other nationalities or ancestries, queer people, people who don't conform to your preferred gender "norms," people with physical disabilities, people whose citizenship may be unknown, etc.

You get the picture.

If you simply can't survive in the world without continuing to insult and demean people with backward terminology, you're not going to be welcome here.

I'll be happy to clarify or explain anything I've said to anyone who doesn't understand any part of it. But I know that everyone reading this knows what I'm saying. And let me reiterate what Artyczar said, this is not up for debate.
 
Well. At first I found this a welcome and spirited discussion, but it seems it has turned angry. Let's take a deep breath folks and agree that there will Always be disagreements, big ones, about art. Especially abstract. We all have our own opinions, and IMHO that is something to be celebrated. How boring if we all thought the same thing.
I won't comment on the R word issue except to say that the admins have the say on what is allowed here. I think it's clearer now than it might have been before.
Oh yes, Frankenthaler. Her work in the video at MOMA is like a huge abstract watercolor. That's not my favorite style but it does have some lovely areas. It is easy to call softer, prettier pieces like this crap but you know, some people like it. It depends what you're looking for. I would say I appreciate the most works that grab me somehow, hit some feeling or emotion. I think that may be what you're getting at, Nufocus. Most of your own work 'grabs' me that way, and much of other work here does sometimes, too. And I get what you're saying about the piece of wall. There's a rawness to it that grabs also. But does that mean that a piece that is softer, appealing, attractive, witty, even pretty and full of wonderful colors is not worthy art?
BTW I agree on the Condo piece.
 
I agree with what you say, trufflecat. To me, an example of an artist whose work is light and pretty, but nevertheless artistically relevant, is Sam Francis. I have always loved his paintings.

middle-blue-1957.jpg
 
...there will Always be disagreements, big ones, about art. Especially abstract.
I never know what to say about abstract art. Some of it is pleasing to the eye, of course, but you won't find me arguing about it. It eludes me.
 
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I have about the same stance as laika. There is abstract art I like and appreciate though.

As for dismissing any (form of ) art, there is an interesting Icelandic proverb I try to keep in mind, "don't throw stones from a house of glas"....
 
I have about the same stance as laika. There is abstract art I like and appreciate though.

As for dismissing any (form of ) art, there is an interesting Icelandic proverb I try to keep in mind, "don't throw stones from a house of glas"....
I think the post is refering to the BS beside and not the art itself. "if you into abstract dont sell me BS" let it be abstract or in other words "what it is". if you into selling BS then your art is might BS bcz you trying to sell me "what it is not".

I once went to see a monthly exhibition in a local place, i started to speak about the works there with my friend, it was the first time im exposed to at least 40 big works (around 100cm squre each) of pure strokes which i couldnt know how to feedback. so i didnt knew how to react and started to speak some non good words like "what the hell is that"? suddenly an old woman came to our way and told us its her works, ofcourse she didnt hear what i just said moment ago. since all the art works she did were abstraction i ask her what is about? she told that she wanted to paint but didnt know how so she went and a class there the teacher told her to do whatever she feels on the canvas, i answerd well you basicaly did it here, she told she find it more for her health than to sell or to get some compliments. and from my side of view it was like she want me to watch how she feels what she expressed here on the canvas, so without any meaning from her side to expectation for something from the paintings she made. i started to stand and watch, step back step forward zoom in zoom out. i have found there things that even she couldnt noticed, big things small things, shapes forms etc., then i realized the deep meaning of even one stroke that came from nowhere.

and this is what i like the most in any form of art, and i think if Turner was hear me saying that, he was agree.
just watch it and let it be. DONT BS!
(forgive me for my bad English language)
 
I never know what to say about abstract art. Some of it is pleasing to the eye, of course, but you won't find me arguing about it. It eludes me.
I think it eludes a lot of people and they don't know what to say, or "think," but I don't think it's about thinking. Especially when you are first being exposed to it. It's about how you feel. You say "some of it is pleasing to the eye" and it's really as simple as that. So those are the pieces you like. Those would be the ones that spoke to you in some way that maybe you didn't have words for yet. Maybe you'll never have words for them. Just, "I kinda like this one" or "I think this one stinks" or "I'm indifferent to this."

I exposed myself to a LOT, lots and lots and lots of abstract art before I felt I could express how it made me feel. It does not matter what the artist says it's about. That is meaningless because it's not for the artist once it's hanging on a wall. It is for the audience. The viewer's eyes, and they have a right to interpret it any way they want to.

Some people think it's "over their heads." It's so simple though. It really about you visceral, gut feelings. Just like a realist painting might make you feel--a serene scene with water and a cottage, or whatever. A puppy. The way a vase with flowers is painted. Maybe the feelings those kinds of paintings give you are more familiar to people because those are more familiar subjects. Once you get more and more familiar with abstract work, the easier you start to see things and feel things you weren't aware of previously. And the more you look, you will start to see technique and skill and craftsmanship, not just the general composition. You become a better judge of what is good. But "good" and "bad" is always subjective in art. It either inspires you or it doesn't. (Or you just walk on by. ;) )

That's my take.
 
Our minds is always in search of forms. this is what the mind is trained for. realism can please but it will never roll the mind like abstract do.
Just curious, what does that mean, "roll the mind"...?
And I would just like to add that it is notoriously difficult to predict how other people's minds should react to...well...anything I suppose....
 
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