Question for knowldge,

[Lazarus]

why acrylic paints are non toxic if the pigment is matter that toxic? Thank you.

 

[fedetony]

I will just write what I believe happens. Is non toxic because of the way the Acrylic medium works. The pigment if floating in the acrylic medium, when it dries up is encapsulated in a plastic layer. For a contrary example, oils dry up by evaporation and the pigment is exposed, reason why you need to varnish in the end to keep the pigment no to react further with the environment.

 

[Lazarus]

I will just write what I believe happens. Is non toxic because of the way the Acrylic medium works. The pigment if floating in the acrylic medium, when it dries up is encapsulated in a plastic layer. For a contrary example, oils dry up by evaporation and the pigment is exposed, reason why you need to varnish in the end to keep the pigment no to react further with the environment.

But when using the acrylic in time of process? we exposed to the same pigemnts us in oils.

 

[fedetony]

But when using the acrylic in time of process? we exposed to the same pigemnts us in oils.

True, most of them are the same, yet ourdays the vast majority are non toxic. And pigment producers have to certify the pigments for non toxicity. As for example cadmium content in reds, or lead in whites are commonly replaced, btw, this is why red color in old paintings is so deep and vivid. What is more toxic in oils are the mediums used, not the pigments. The mediums are vaporized and then fumes inhaled, additionally the skin contact to the pigments, that it will not do anything if is a sporadic touch, yet is very toxic when constantly you are in contact with it. Some famous painters died with symptoms of lead poisoning. None of the known toxic pigments are allowed to be used commercially in art products, yet you can buy them and prepare your own recipes as old masters did and as they do for restoration.

 

[fedetony]

PS: these I know because I was trying to airbrush oils, so I went to understand in what sense it would be bad for my health, happens to be it is very hazardous when oils are atomized and inhaled.

 

[Lazarus]

As far as i read the oils tubes it doesnt say anything about dangruos mediums adds.
i thought maybe to move to acrylics. i have lots of tubes of oils spend lots of on them and like to paint with them but lately im working on something which is really ant job and im exposed to the paints lots of hours, i started to feel breath issue and its very hard for me to smell them for such a long time. i must say this is the first time i spend hours for two paintings. but then came to mind mind this question. what is the difference if both holds the same substence? btw i didnt know varnish is health protector.

 

[Artyczar]

Personally I don't think oils are necessarily so "toxic." It's typically the mediums and almost all of the cleaners. Is linseed really toxic? Are the pigments? What else is in there?

 

[Hermes2020]

Personally I don't think oils are necessarily so "toxic." It's typically the mediums and almost all of the cleaners. Is linseed really toxic? Are the pigments? What else is in there?

I agree: we should be concerned about certain solvents and other VOCs There is too much unnecessary worry about the actual pigments, unless one is an idiot and eats the paint.

 

[ntl]

MSDS for acrylic paint: https://cdn.dick-blick.com/msds/DBH_SDS_008382020.pdf
2. Hazard Identification
Classification
Symbol(s) of Product
No symbol is required per 2012 OSHA Hazard Communication Standard 29 CFR 1910.1200.
Signal Word
No Signal Word has been assigned.
Possible Hazards
16% of the mixture consists of ingredient(s) of unknown acute toxicity.

3. Composition / Information On Ingredients
HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES
Chemical Name CAS-No. Wt.%Range GHS Symbols GHS Statements
Propylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether 5131-66-8 2.5-10 GHS07 H302-315-319
Carbon Black 1333-86-4 2.5-10 Not Available Not Available
Dipropylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether 29911-28-2 2.5-10 Not Available Not Available
2,2,4-Trimethyl-1,3-Pentanediol Diisobutyrate 6846-50-0 1.0-2.5 GHS06 H331
Polyethylene-Polypropylene Glycol 9003-11-6 0.1-1.0 GHS06 H330
Aqueous Ammonia 1336-21-6 0.1-1.0 GHS05-GHS07 H302-314-335

4. First-Aid Measures follow eye, skin, inhalation, ingestion

 

[ntl]

It is my understanding that MOST deadly toxins have been removed from oil paint, were removed years ago, except possibly for cadmium colors and lead paint. I think manganese was one, but I have a tube of it, and others I don't remember. It IS the solvents that are the problem: turpentine, mineral spirits, odorless mineral spirits, spike lavender, etc.

Sometimes, for some people, the odor of the oil and paint can become so concentrated in a room with little active air movement, that the odor can be a problem, but probably temporary. It has happened to me a couple of times, and one painter chose to move his oil paints to a garage studio because his wife was reacting to it, though in a different part of the house. So, it is probably very uncommon, but it does happen. You are smart to question.
No, the acrylics are not toxin free, and if you have problems (I have) in just painting with them, make the necessary adjustments. I would paint outside for instance, with acrylics.

 

[Artyczar]

I always thought acrylics smelled plasticy or something. Or at least I thought they had some kind of plastic base? What the hell is in plastic that has been made into a colored paste? Ewww.

Whereas, pigment, unless it is ingested, with linseed oil, just seems a lot safer to me. There aren't really any other vehicles in oil paint, at least the professional grades--that I know of. However, I have a bias to oils. I also use a safer turp, don't allow it to smell up my room (keep it very contained), and never put it in my mouth. I used to shape my brushes in my mouth after cleaning (after the soap and water/conditioning process--never after dipping into turps!), but I learned 30 years ago not to even do that anymore just in case of trace solvents. But spit is still the best way to shape them after a wash. Gross, I know. I do it in the palm of my hand and between my fingers, then wash my hands afterward. Having them dry from water alone (I find) frays them out.

 

[Lazarus]

It is my understanding that MOST deadly toxins have been removed from oil paint, were removed years ago, except possibly for cadmium colors and lead paint. I think manganese was one, but I have a tube of it, and others I don't remember. It IS the solvents that are the problem: turpentine, mineral spirits, odorless mineral spirits, spike lavender, etc.

Sometimes, for some people, the odor of the oil and paint can become so concentrated in a room with little active air movement, that the odor can be a problem, but probably temporary. It has happened to me a couple of times, and one painter chose to move his oil paints to a garage studio because his wife was reacting to it, though in a different part of the house. So, it is probably very uncommon, but it does happen. You are smart to question.
No, the acrylics are not toxin free, and if you have problems (I have) in just painting with them, make the necessary adjustments. I would paint outside for instance, with acrylics.

Well. that was the best explenation i could get. indeed i use small room. trying not to exposed the family into it. im not using any solvent and particular at these two paintings i used just linseed oil. so at the bottom acrylic are safe to use? and i ask bcz the drying time is critical issue.

 

[ntl]

I think the answer to your question is, it depends...
I posted part of the material safety data sheet from dick blick listing the hazardous substances and
"Possible Hazards 16% of the mixture consists of ingredient(s) of unknown acute toxicity."
It depends on how much you are exposed to, for how long, in what concentrations, do you have any health conditions or other chemicals (including your personal care products) that those chemicals may react to, how do YOU react to various levels of exposure, what can you put up with--it depends on these and other factors. It's your choice. No one can tell you if it's safe for you or those around you, including animals. Just, be safe.

 

[fedetony]

True.. I said mediums, but I meant solvents (sorry)... ... turpentine & spirits gives me a headache in less than 3 mins. BTW linseed oil could also be toxic to some extent if is the cheap processed one.
If you have some feeling that is wrong trust your instinct. Maybe is also the brand of acrylics you are using. They often contain alcohol so they dry faster, yet the alcohols they use are not meant for constant human exposure. And of course if they evaporate they make fumes. Avoid any contact with your skin, as also keep the Acrylic cleaners away and well closed when not used. A well ventilated area is a good step, if you airbrush is a must.

It comes to breaking some habits like as don't hold brushes with your mouth, don't support your palm on the canvas, don't leave the jars/bottles open. Stay away from fresh painted areas and while painting, use gloves, use mask (respiration mask with exhaust valves, not the corona worthless ones that make you breathe your own CO2). Do not have anything that could contaminate and then you consume as open drink or food where you paint... etc

 

[Lazarus]

True.. I said mediums, but I meant solvents (sorry)... ... turpentine & spirits gives me a headache in less than 3 mins. BTW linseed oil could also be toxic to some extent if is the cheap processed one.
If you have some feeling that is wrong trust your instinct. Maybe is also the brand of acrylics you are using. They often contain alcohol so they dry faster, yet the alcohols they use are not meant for constant human exposure. And of course if they evaporate they make fumes. Avoid any contact with your skin, as also keep the Acrylic cleaners away and well closed when not used. A well ventilated area is a good step, if you airbrush is a must.

It comes to breaking some habits like as don't hold brushes with your mouth, don't support your palm on the canvas, don't leave the jars/bottles open. Stay away from fresh painted areas and while painting, use gloves, use mask (respiration mask with exhaust valves, not the corona worthless ones that make you breathe your own CO2). Do not have anything that could contaminate and then you consume as open drink or food where you paint... etc

Well...thats a piece of job there.

 

[AES]

why acrylic paints are non toxic if the pigment is matter that toxic? Thank you.

They aren't. Paint, like most other things, is a combination of materials. The acrylic carrier itself is nontoxic (as labeled. some are to a degree, like certain house or industrial paints, but usually not artists stuff), but the pigments themselves vary in toxicity. Cadmiums, etc are toxic if ingested, things like iron oxide black and red, etc are not (those are used in makeup). One's like cobalt blue or chromium oxide green can irritate skin if you are allergic. It all depends. That's why you look at the labels and MSDS, and/or contact the company if they don't tell you straight what's in it.

 

[AES]

Note: Some artists acrylics can be irritating. This is the label on my liquitex pouring medium. This paticular acrylic solvent monomer can be an allergen to some, which is why there's a warning for it on the bottle. Read your bottles, people.

Same goes for oils. Certain oil additives like cobalt dryer and lead pigment are toxic, while you can technically eat straight linseed oil (though I wouldn't lol). It's all component.

 

[Lazarus]

They aren't. Paint, like most other things, is a combination of materials. The acrylic carrier itself is nontoxic (as labeled. some are to a degree, like certain house or industrial paints, but usually not artists stuff), but the pigments themselves vary in toxicity. Cadmiums, etc are toxic if ingested, things like iron oxide black and red, etc are not (those are used in makeup). One's like cobalt blue or chromium oxide green can irritate skin if you are allergic. It all depends. That's why you look at the labels and MSDS, and/or contact the company if they don't tell you straight what's in it.

I can assure you that every time Phtlo green is on my skin even a bit it begins to itch.
you know....good old days are good oold days...something between innocence and good will for the sake of us all.
but when something start to crack and the the good old is about to break the rules, we starting to face bad days.
as these days we are all facing i dont think i need to describe you what are bad days (at least psychologicly which influnce direct on the physical functioning and behaviour).
example for good old days can refer to what i assuming is responsibility of the product the owner offer, back in old days 23 years ago and below you could find that the owner is doing for you as a client, everything he could to satisfy the need as he wanted his client pockets in his bank account.
why im trashing this words? bcz no one cares anymore and its a fact.
so the for me the example is like this: here you have a picture i took from an oil paint tube of a poland brand. this poland brand is new (couple years i guess) and bcz the owner trying to make it professional as much as it can be seen, he mentioned the details which for me as a client is making the difference by choosing options of brands.
if we take Royal talens or Winton same garde oils you can see that nothing left for them to make the client satisfying as they already done their good for their bussines and now they just need to give me less bcz in my mind i already have these names as "quality" and when i mention quality its just by names, there is no difference in the quality of the poland i might say they even better and the price is worth twice.

 

[Marc]

I will just write what I believe happens. Is non toxic because of the way the Acrylic medium works. The pigment if floating in the acrylic medium, when it dries up is encapsulated in a plastic layer. For a contrary example, oils dry up by evaporation and the pigment is exposed, reason why you need to varnish in the end to keep the pigment no to react further with the environment.

They're both moderately toxic. "Non Toxic" is a common, official, but misleading term. Drinking too much non toxic water will kill you.

This portion is the reply to Fedtony: Drying Oils dry by taking up oxygen from the air and polymerizing certain types of the fatty acids within. Evaporation isn't really the major feature. Although there is a small amount of volatile loss, ( and a small number of people can be sensitive to this) the oil actually gains weight and mass in drying. That's why one can get wrinkling of thick oil films. The drying surface now has greater length than the still liquid underlayer. After many years of aging, dried oil can then shrink causing drying cracks.

As to the paints, well Artist's acrylic can have a small amount of toxic anti-mold agents, but the same pigmented colour in oil could have toxic metal driers. Acrylic binder certainly isn't intended for human consumption, but neither is the linseed oil used in the coating industry. If nothing else it's probably "gone off" by being partially oxidized. None of them should be spend on toast.

 

[AES]

I think acrylics get pushed as "nontoxic" because of their primary solvent being plain water, while it's difficult (but not impossible) to paint in oils without some kind of organic solvent, which no matter how much it does or doesn't smell, needs good ventilation.

As an aside, water miscable/soluble oils and wax paints do exist, though they have a learning curve just like any other new medium.