Frustrated with online purchasing

[Bartc]

Love color(s), and like most of you I'm acquisitive of art supplies when budget allows. Quality soft pastels are hard to find in art stores in my area, as the stores simply don't make enough from carrying such expensive inventory. So I'm often forced to go online to buy colors.

As you may have experienced, sets are both expensive and often contain colors you won't use. Buying individually is largely limited to some online stores and brands. And making it worse is trying to choose colors based on backlit screen shots of actual pastels and supposed color charts. What I find to my annoyance is the the screen makes colors look more vibrant than the are in real life. Open a set of watercolors, oils, acrylics etc. in a store (and everyone carries lots of these) and you can see the true colors instantly; but not so for buying pastels sight unseen except for the computerized vision.

I'm also frustrated at times by the wide variance in hardness/softness, even within one brand.

So while I'm loving this pastel experience when painting, I'm hating the purchasing issues. (Not to mention the expensive framing/glazing necessary, but that's another story.)

Other than hand rolling my own, has anyone here found a way to deal with this effectively???

 

[Claude J Greengrass]

I'm not a fan of Apple, but you need to ask yourself "Why do all graphic designers use a Mac?". Colour correction of the monitor is one reason. Gamma correction is another. Of course then there is the problem of the camera/process used to create the image you are viewing and any fubar your browser causes.

I don't expect this class of problem to be resolved anytime soon. ;-(

 

[Bartc]

I'm not a fan of Apple, but you need to ask yourself "Why do all graphic designers use a Mac?". Colour correction of the monitor is one reason. Gamma correction is another. Of course then there is the problem of the camera/process used to create the image you are viewing and any fubar your browser causes.

I don't expect this class of problem to be resolved anytime soon. ;-(

Yes, I do recognize the problem re monitors and systems, and I have neither the time nor the interest in dealing with those on that level.

Just hoping somebody has a proven strategy for dealing with this purchasing issue that doesn't involve driving long distances to large cities with larger stores.

 

[Artyczar]

Just make sure you buy a monitor that is calibrated. It doesn't need to be a Mac. I have a large ViewSonic and it's a perfect monitor.

 

[Donna T]

I can relate to your frustration, Bart. I keep color charts of every color in every brand and use them to compare to the online photos of potential new colors. If I have a certain blue and want to try another of the same brand at least I have something to go by. Here's a link to an older blog post that has color charts for pastels. They always seemed fairly accurate to me.

 

[john]

Just make sure you buy a monitor that is calibrated. It doesn't need to be a Mac. I have a large ViewSonic and it's a perfect monitor.

I have to look into this. My current cheap ASUS monitor shows too much yellow and I can't adjust it out. I didn't realize it until I saw the images of my paintings on it and compared. And on the laptop they looked OK.

 

[Bartc]

I can relate to your frustration, Bart. I keep color charts of every color in every brand and use them to compare to the online photos of potential new colors. If I have a certain blue and want to try another of the same brand at least I have something to go by. Here's a link to an older blog post that has color charts for pastels. They always seemed fairly accurate to me.

Would have been great, Donna, but the link is too old. Too many of the charts I would want are at dead pages. Thanks for the try!

 

[stlukesguild]

I use Rembrandt, Sennelier, and Nu Pastel. All have the pigment number printed on the wrapper. Of course, color is affected by the color under it, and next to it, the texture of the surface, etc... Still, I simply write down the numbers of favorite pastels that need replacement... whether ordering online or in person.

 

[Bartc]

I use Rembrandt, Sennelier, and Nu Pastel. All have the pigment number printed on the wrapper. Of course, color is affected by the color under it, and next to it, the texture of the surface, etc... Still, I simply write down the numbers of favorite pastels that need replacement... whether ordering online or in person.

Yes, as a good practice once you have the pastels I agree. I'm speaking of first time ordering when I don't have the live pastel sticks to refer to in the first place. Thanks.

 

[stlukesguild]

Well... that's always a hit-or-miss prospect. You never really know what it's going to look like until you try it out. I often pick up one or two colors that I haven't used before each time I pick up some replacements.

 

[Artyczar]

I have to look into this. My current cheap ASUS monitor shows too much yellow and I can't adjust it out. I didn't realize it until I saw the images of my paintings on it and compared. And on the laptop they looked OK.

Laptops are not the best monitors in my opinion. I have both a desktop and a laptop and hardly ever use the laptop unless I take it out of town. I use the desktop for "work" (as an artist). It's a needed tool for things like what you mentioned and all kinds of things in between.

 

[Bartc]

I am having a moment of disillusionment, I think. Not sure what else to call it.
Started off in soft pastel with an 80 half stick landscape assortment from Sennelier. The colors were brilliant and have always been satisfied with the way they work EXCEPT didn't like the wide variability in hardness. Some were too soft and crumbly, some too hard, and I know this is a common complaint, not just with this brand.

Based on YT vids and accomplished teachers' reviews, I decided to try different brands. The results have not always been what I expected based on those reviews. The only hard and fast guide I found to hardness and size was on Dakota's site, and at least that seems to mostly match my experience.

First tried a set of Townsends. Gritty as expected, fine for color but nothing that seemed to warrant the extra expense.

Then tried some Richeson's, which came in the colors pictured, but were miniscule. About the same experience as Sennelier on variability of hardness. So for the extra cost nothing special there for me.

Then went for some Mount Visions. These were exactly as expected and a very good value. Worked fine. Not "creamy/buttery" as some touted brands, though.

Sprung for some Unisons, which sounded like the best of all worlds. Both colors and hardness and consistency pretty much as expected and I'm pleased so far.

Finally got some Terry Ludwigs, one of the supposed crowning glories until you get to the super expensive European brands. Colors duller than pictured. Not sure I can really feel that supposedly "buttery" feel. They are indeed soft going on and a couple were a bit crumbly. Not quite what I expected at this cost level for all the hype. Maybe I just need to get a few other colors (more vibrant) and keep trying?

At this point, though I would like some other colors to replace some being worn down, I'm not at all sure I want to go through the frustrating and expensive process of trying more brands. There are others out there, yet I'm becoming dubious of claims made by art luminaries as anything more than just personal preferences based on how they work. It appears that most of them also have a combination of many brands to play with. So I may be back to my starting point, almost, having only reached greater satisfaction with Unison and/or Mt. Vision above the Sennelier.

 

[stlukesguild]

My guess is that the variety in terms of hardness in pastels such as Sennelier is due to the various pigments. Rembrandt and Nu Pastel are pretty much consistent... but they are consistently hard. Rembrandt's are medium hard and Nu Pastel very hard. Again, I've simply learned which pastels and which colors achieve what I am after and I work with these rather than seeking out some perfect uniform brand. I use a very matte acrylic under all of my pastels as a primer which gives me a surface with enough toot to it. This also allows me to quickly fix problems or make major compositional changes by simply painting over an area with the same primer color in order to start again. Have you ever experimented with primer, or with adding fine grain sand to a primer? I want to give one of Degas' techniques a try. He would place his pastels in something like a double steamer softening the pastels to something closer to an oil pastel or a paste. He would use this in his later pastels:

 

[Bartc]

I tried clear gesso as a primer, but found it too gritty for my taste. So haven't bothered with that since I found PastelMat to be a terrific support.

 

[MurrayG]

Hi Bart, I dont have your experience of trying so many brands. I started with FaberCastell and moved to Rembrandts and recently managed to get a set(80) of Sennelier. I also did a long search of brands and colours as like you, my online options are limited due to a flucky delivery system. I have gotten used to the rembrandts but found that the half stick sets (hard) are very different to the standard full sticks which I find quite variable from soft creamy to crumbly. The Senneliers I like and seem to be more consistent but I do find some colours scratch a little. I have started taking notes on what Colours I use and their numbers. I also made a card up of all my pastels as a colour swatch like I used to with water colours so I can refer to the value/hue etc. That has helped. I do find that the sets, altho great to start often have colours I almost never touch. I have also started collecting a wide range of single sticks (Remb & Senn) of pale brown to creams, greys, blues and greens that seem to suite what I paint. The Colour Code on the swatch helps to remember what I bought.
But yes, I sympathize, the online colour matching sucks and pastels reaaalllyyy eat my limited budget.

 

[Bartc]

Hi Bart, I dont have your experience of trying so many brands. I started with FaberCastell and moved to Rembrandts and recently managed to get a set(80) of Sennelier. I also did a long search of brands and colours as like you, my online options are limited due to a flucky delivery system. I have gotten used to the rembrandts but found that the half stick sets (hard) are very different to the standard full sticks which I find quite variable from soft creamy to crumbly. The Senneliers I like and seem to be more consistent but I do find some colours scratch a little. I have started taking notes on what Colours I use and their numbers. I also made a card up of all my pastels as a colour swatch like I used to with water colours so I can refer to the value/hue etc. That has helped. I do find that the sets, altho great to start often have colours I almost never touch. I have also started collecting a wide range of single sticks (Remb & Senn) of pale brown to creams, greys, blues and greens that seem to suite what I paint. The Colour Code on the swatch helps to remember what I bought.
But yes, I sympathize, the online colour matching sucks and pastels reaaalllyyy eat my limited budget.

This is one expensive medium!
I never liked Rembrandts. Too hard for my taste. In hard pastels, the one recommendation from online that truly works for me is Nupastels. They are great for sketching, hard detail under OR over soft pastels, and good for underpainting.
Sadly, there is no store nearby to simply see a stick live other than the ubiquitous Rembrandts. If so, I could know immediately by feel and look what to buy and what to avoid, regardless of brands.
BTW, be aware that for some reason the half sticks of Sennelier are more sturdy than some of their full sticks of the exact same color. I have no idea if the few other brands with half sticks are like that.

 

[Enyaw]

... you could be trying to buy FUB and can't find it anywhere that won't charge you 25% more than regular price, Amazon comes to mind, and some add another $25.oo to ship one 200 ml tube.
Good old times I got my colors in 3 days from Currys but they are really low on items these days.

 

[stlukesguild]

-Lenore 2021 (estimated size 36 x 60" I never got around to measuting it and its in storage right now)

I don't use pastel in a "traditional" manner. My drawings/paintings are mixed media combining pastel with acrylic paint, color pencil, Conte, and gold leaf. I use pastel in some places in a traditional manner emphasizing texture. In other areas... especially the figure... I use pastel more in the manner that some old master artists (Michelangelo, Rubens, Boucher) used chalk... hatching out the forms. Rembrandt and Nu Pastel are better suited to my needs for the linear elements while Sennelier is better for texture and saturated color.

 

[Artyczar]

I would maybe try to get a refund on some of those if you did not like them, even if they were due to pigments being different. If you are unsatisfied, you are an unsatisfied customer, no matter the reason. Second, I would get advice from experienced pastel users here, and anywhere else you can, then based on that, maybe spring for the best, if you can. I find the better the materials, the nicer and easier they work--instead of going through a bunch of cheaper stuff and ending up spending the same in the long run. If you can afford it. Once you hone-in on a brand, you can look around for the best deal for those supplies. That's the best advice I can give, not being a pastel person. I use oil pastels rarely and personally prefer (or use) Sennelier.

 

[Bartc]

View attachment 16375
-Lenore 2021 (estimated size 36 x 60" I never got around to measuting it and its in storage right now)

View attachment 16376

View attachment 16377

I don't use pastel in a "traditional" manner. My drawings/paintings are mixed media combining pastel with acrylic paint, color pencil, Conte, and gold leaf. I use pastel in some places in a traditional manner emphasizing texture. In other areas... especially the figure... I use pastel more in the manner that some old master artists (Michelangelo, Rubens, Boucher) used chalk... hatching out the forms. Rembrandt and Nu Pastel are better suited to my needs for the linear elements while Sennelier is better for texture and saturated color.

I see what you mean about technique and agree with your use of those brands.
Seriously good work! I think Mucha would approve.