Competing With A Billion Other Artists In The World 🎨

[Artyczar]

"I don't really see it as competing. I see it all as collaboration, one immensely massive collaborative art project. Someone creates art that inspires a piece I do, and that piece inspires others to make their own, and so on, until it comes full circle."

I couldn't agree more!

 

[Bartc]

"I don't really see it as competing. I see it all as collaboration, one immensely massive collaborative art project. Someone creates art that inspires a piece I do, and that piece inspires others to make their own, and so on, until it comes full circle."

I couldn't agree more!

Ayin, if you look at it as similar to comedy improvisation - where everyone participates, has fun and some things elicit laughter, some don't - then that works. If you look at it as a desire for attention and especially to make a living, then I don't think it does work. It's the competitive edge that makes it feel harsh and discomfiting, not the size of the group.

 

[Artyczar]

Please expand Bart. What do you mean?

What I mean:

You can't control what people buy. You can control certain aspects from your end of it, but ultimately, there's many factors you can't control, like luck, who you know, right place/right time, the buyer's taste, etc. You can control your work, your goals, defining your successes, networking, how you promote yourself, etc. Therefore, it's really about the WORK you make. In that, it is all a dialogue within the context of art history, and that is what I was agreeing with.

 

[Bartc]

Totally agree with that, Ayin.

It's the need for external validation that makes the art world frustrating. Attention/appreciation from others and payment from others. Personal satisfaction, personal direction, personal intrinsic enjoyment - those know no external competitive forces in the end.

To work together with others on a creative project is a form of play. Almost everyone likes to play. So a billion other artists all at play in various combinations is like a giant party.

To work alone determinedly on something that intrigues, inspires or otherwise motivates you is its own form of personal reward, even if you never feel you've achieved your goal.

When it becomes pressureful is when you NEED that external validation, and then the competitive market is daunting. From what you have told us of your own journey, I suspect you'd agree with how difficult it can be. Some lucky few have had that easy, but the general history doesn't bear out ease for most artists who want the external validation.

People tell me they like my art, that it's "very good", etc. Some of them I believe know what they're even talking about (as opposed to "gee you can do something I can't"). When I see the enormous quantity of so well produced artworks on just a few sites on the web now, and I know that is like a drop in an ocean, that's when the prospect of securing a showing or even selling any becomes quite daunting. That's when the billion others, even just tens of thousands who are damn good at it, becomes a wall of sorts.

But you know all that! ;-)

 

[Artyczar]

It's not easy to resist the demon of external validation. It takes a lot of practice, practice, and more practice. I hope to keep getting better at it because it's like envy, anger, or greed. It can eat you from the inside out.

But there are a few things we can do to keep us on the right path, like making sure we are creating the work that is true to us, true to our values as artists, keeping our integrity intact, and a fist-full of other tricks of the trade, one of them being--knowing what you can and can not control. There are things you can control. By focusing on those things, it makes it easier. You can't control whether you're an overnight success, for instance. You can control building a meaningful career. You can't control your luck. You can control the way you promote yourself. You can't control who likes or buys your work. You can control what you make and who you promote it to. The list can go on forever, so it's a matter of focus, patience, and acceptance, and also streamlining it all together to align with your values. Values are everything and they are unique to you, as is your art.

 

[Artyczar]

When I see the enormous quantity of so well produced artworks on just a few sites on the web now, and I know that is like a drop in an ocean, that's when the prospect of securing a showing or even selling any becomes quite daunting. That's when the billion others, even just tens of thousands who are damn good at it, becomes a wall of sorts.

I know it's hard. This is more on what I just said. But you can't look at it with this perspective, that it's a wall. You won't be able to get anywhere with this outlook or rather, from this foundation. If any business started off with this foundation, they wouldn't be able to assemble much of a business plan or a trajectory.

There is an audience for you. There is something about your work that should distinguish you from others. There should be something that you make that others want. But this is all if you wish to have some type of art business-ish/career goal...and this is backward by the way. You don't put these carts before the horse. Seriously, finding/figuring out your values (in your work and as an artist) come way before any of this stuff.

 

[Arnie]

It's not easy to resist the demon of external validation. It takes a lot of practice, practice, and more practice. I hope to keep getting better at it because it's like envy, anger, or greed. It can eat you from the inside out.

But there are a few things we can do to keep us on the right path, like making sure we are creating the work that is true to us, true to our values as artists, keeping our integrity intact, and a fist-full of other tricks of the trade, one of them being--knowing what you can and can not control. There are things you can control. By focusing on those things, it makes it easier. You can't control whether you're an overnight success, for instance. You can control building a meaningful career. You can't control your luck. You can control the way you promote yourself. You can't control who likes or buys your work. You can control what you make and who you promote it to. The list can go on forever, so it's a matter of focus, patience, and acceptance, and also streamlining it all together to align with your values. Values are everything and they are unique to you, as is your art.

Thats a good list of can and cants. Very informative.

 

[Arnie]

I know it's hard. This is more on what I just said. But you can't look at it with this perspective, that it's a wall. You won't be able to get anywhere with this outlook or rather, from this foundation. If any business started off with this foundation, they wouldn't be able to assemble much of a business plan or a trajectory.

There is an audience for you. There is something about your work that should distinguish you from others. There should be something that you make that others want. But this is all if you wish to have some type of art business-ish/career goal...and this is backward by the way. You don't put these carts before the horse. Seriously, finding/figuring out your values (in your work and as an artist) come way before any of this stuff.

I agree with what your saying Ayin, your saying good stuff.
I've been painting for 13years now since taking early retirement, primarily for enjoyment, but also to continue doing what I would have done as a teenager if it had offered a better career opportunities (things were very bad her in the 70s!) . I'v concentrated on the process side of things so far, having an artpal page more to stop people saying you aught to try selling your work. But now is the time to decide my values, set some goals, and venture out and take some risks!

 

[Enyaw]

Competing With A Billion Other Artists In The World​

.. definately not. You are compering with the few artist in your circle. How big is your circle? Don't tell me it's the world because it is not. You cannot reach the world. How many world leaders do you know? Maybe one day you could compete with the world but by then you would be ready. You would been through the hoops, understand and entertain world leaders.

my 2 cents ....

 

[Artyczar]

That's right, Wayne. You also don't need a huge following or a billion collectors or admirers. Just a few loyal ones. Unless you're an actor or something looking for wild fame and fortune.

 

[Artyczar]

I agree with what your saying Ayin, your saying good stuff.
I've been painting for 13years now since taking early retirement, primarily for enjoyment, but also to continue doing what I would have done as a teenager if it had offered a better career opportunities (things were very bad her in the 70s!) . I'v concentrated on the process side of things so far, having an artpal page more to stop people saying you aught to try selling your work. But now is the time to decide my values, set some goals, and venture out and take some risks!

I also started to getting more into process about 12 years back and it changed me for the better. The "risk taking" I do applies more to the work than anything else. I'm all for ones who want to build an art career (if they want one) but it must be about their work first. That is why I think finding your values is important. Some people might find that selling their work isn't for them after some soul searching. I've come to a place where if I sell, that's good, but if I don't (as often anyway), I think can handle it. I don't feel as desperate as I did like when I was young, pushing a giant boulder up a hill with all my might. I'm too tired and I feel I've put in enough work to push with less might.

 

[john]

That's the problem with being a social being. We crave contact, communication and confirmation otherwise our creativity is just contained within our need to use all "C's" as we describe things. It's crazy. And constraining. I'll stop now.

 

[Bartc]

That's the problem with being a social being. We crave contact, communication and confirmation otherwise our creativity is just contained within our need to use all "C's" as we describe things. It's crazy. And constraining. I'll stop now.

Look - and I mean that literally - art happened before markets, before the audience was more than a couple of handfuls, before we likely had a term for it or any expectations of it. At least 50,000 years ago, and possibly longer. So that creative urge is somehow something intrinsic to humans (and it's not really clear that no other animals create art, BTW). But we ARE also social beings and the reactions of others undoubtedly have always played a role in the continued creation of art, whether in awe or disgust. So it's pretty hard to deny that the social reaction doesn't count. Now that all predates money and trade by quite a lot, but we've defined our rise in civilization for 10,000+ years on the basis of trade and now abstract concepts of "value" based in monetary systems. So I would guess from that initial curiosity and urge to try something, we grew toward social reaction, and have now accreted money to the whole shebang. End of lecture.

But having found ourselves there, it's pretty hard to deny the push toward desiring viewers and in some cases sales. And having recently made it possible - even pressured - to reach a worldwide audience, I don't see how anyone can deny the cast of billions in this movie, millions at least as the creators, others as the audience.

So what each of us chooses to do with all that is personal. While I create because of urges, I don't deny the desire for an audience, and only recently have toyed with the sales issue. Once beyond pleasing only yourself, the numerical issues can become daunting.

Ayin, a small coterie of collectors buying my stuff would be a big dream for me at this point. I already have a larger group who appreciate or at least bother to view my art (I've roped you blokes into it by joining, LOL.) As I seek something more "public" that's where the challenges lie for me. As for the rest of you, YMMV, as they say....

 

[Artyczar]

Wanting to be validated and excepted is hard-wired in our DNA! We used to live in tribes and if the rest of our tribe didn't like us, then we'd be shunned, maybe even killed. So, it was like a matter of our survival. It's totally understandable for us to want that stuff. We no longer need it however, and it can freeze us up into places where it can depress us utterly, comparing ourselves to others, which is not exactly beneficial. It doesn't get us anywhere in terms of our survival in the present day.

Bart, a while back you have said that you were not interested in selling your work, or at least I got that impression from you. I think it was based on the fact that you didn't have the need to. If it is a big dream for you to have some collectors, I really don't see why you couldn't have that come true! () Is there something that has been stopping you or have I misunderstood something?

 

[Bartc]

You have a good memory, Ayin! Yes, it was true until maybe the last year or less that I preferred not to deal with selling because I didn't need to, didn't want any pressure, and wanted to paint for myself only. Lots of folks paid me the usual compliment, "You could sell these." Of course they don't mean they would buy it, just that they think it's good. But it did get me thinking. Plus, in shows the venues were a bit annoyed with me for putting NFS on the paintings, obviously because they get a commission.

Then I decided I want to retire and at that point some extra income - even if only to support the art costs - would really come in handy. So I started to focus more on that potential of selling some sometimes.

As you well know, there is effort and expense involved in building a market. If I'm going to front those costs to any degree, I'd like there to be commensurate returns. And if I end up feeling that the pricing is "giving it away", I'd just as soon truly give it to friends and not get into the marketing hassle.

So that's where I am at this point. And even getting notice in a gallery does put one into competition with many good artists, even without the selling aspect. Getting a set of collectors does involve a lot of the marketing effort. I'm a novice at marketing my own stuff (though highly experienced at marketing in other arenas, and that pressure is one thing that I'd like to leave behind in retirement.) I suppose that makes me an ambivalent and inexperienced art sales guy.

 

[Artyczar]

To hear you correctly, you're interested in getting into selling, but not if requires any promotional effort or loss of any investment? I hear ya! Now that sounds like a dream. Ha ha.

Building a market...hmmm. I wouldn't know the first thing about that because those are one of those things that can't be within my control, so I never did anything like that. Oh, I tried when I was a very young person. I looked out the window, in the closet, and under the couch. Nope! I couldn't find a market. I could not create a market either. Not even out of clay.

Instead, I promoted to people that were interested in my work. At first, maybe I had a small handful of those. Maybe they weren't rich, but I had to build and be patient while I lived through networking and kept on making my art. If people wanted my work, but couldn't afford much, I put them on payment plans. I figured it out so that I was NOT giving my art away for free. I did my best to not lose (much) of my costs. Over time, I lost less and less and began to profit. It's not an overnight thing. It wasn't for me. However, it can be, and it can go rapidly for some. Probably someone like you who already has an established hand and is known among your artistic circles. You're already showing in some shows. You are already getting to know people. It really wouldn't require as much effort as you think.

And you say that you have sales/market experience, though, I don't think artists need to have much (but all the better for you!) Artists need to have a little social know-how and willingness to get out and don't need to be pushy or marketing gurus. And thank goodness for the internet where you can do a lot of communicating on your keyboard instead of feeling awkward in person. For people like me, it was a godsend because I have better written skills than in-person ones.

Anyway, I just want to encourage you to try, but maybe give it some time? Maybe a little less expectation than super quick results? Think about a reasonable timeline maybe. Also, you never need to ask LESS than what your work is worth Bart. Never. Don't!

I hear you about feeling you're in "competition with many good artists," but think for a second about how good your work is without thinking about anyone else's. It's not competition unless you're thinking of this in terms of whose work is better, and that is not the right way to look at it. Do you think the "better" art wins out?

You don't have to be "better" than the rest of the artists. You don't have to be a great artist either (even though you are). You don't even have to be good. You just have to be good at what you do.

 

[Bartc]

I hear ya', Ayin.

 

[john]

It sounds silly maybe but I would like to make at least one sale to the non-family/friends public so I can be more confident calling myself an artist. I know you all are going to say "But you ARE an artist John!" but you're all just nice people so I don't trust you ...........

 

[Bartc]

It sounds silly maybe but I would like to make at least one sale to the non-family/friends public so I can be more confident calling myself an artist. I know you all are going to say "But you ARE an artist John!" but you're all just nice people so I don't trust you ...........

Yes, I can identify with that one, John! OK, I'm a very few ahead of you maybe.... But the impulse I completely understand.

Ayin, I'm aware that the way I wrote my posts above does make it sound as though I want it all without any effort. That's not quite the case. But I am wrestling with how to make the next step without finding myself in a position that doesn't deliver what I want at all. 50 years ago when I had a business in photography I was able to sell a lot and make quite a living, BUT photography at that time was my art form and I found that there was no market for the creative work. Doing it as a business was killing my enjoyment of my art form, so I left the business. It's not an experience I want to repeat.

I'm retiring after 53 years of doing at least 2 jobs at a time. Running a complex business is what I want to leave behind. A simple sales operation would suit me. As I look at soooo many artists trying so hard for the same thing and getting very little return for their effort (if any), that's what I'm wrestling with. I don't feel competitive with the millions of others really. Yet it's undeniable that marketing art is highly competitive. I guess I'm just an old racehorse hoping to spend my years on a stud farm, not another muddy steeplechase! LOL

 

[john]

I should add, that I'm lucky I'm being given a chance to get my art out in the public now that I've joined an arts council and will have a space at a market and some other venues. I know this an opportunity that not all get so I'm grateful and will try to make the best of it so you all can be proud of me.