toohless wonder (or wondering about toothless?)

Bartc

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I"m working lately with Caran D'Ache Neocolor II crayons, which I use dry and a bit with water. Need a water friendly paper at least 100 - 140 lb. weight that is as toothless as possible. Hot pressed watercolor isn't really toothless, just less than other textures. Mixed Media papers claim a lot, but are apparently just as toothy and not as water friendly anyway. Yupo is plastic and not what I'm seeking.

Any suggestions FROM EXPERIENCE? Thanks.
 
Have you ever tried Arches hot press? It's super smooth or I wouldn't use it.
Not their hot press, only their cold press. I'll take a look, but suspect it's going to be toothy to some degree. Maybe beyond Yupo there isn't anything really flat? Clearly multi-media and drawing papers are also toothy.
 
If you want, I can send you a couple of small sheets of it in the mail (300#) and see what you think. I swear by it, but it's very expensive.
 
Thank you for the offer, but I can just go to my local art store - who know the dilemma - and check it myself. You're very kind. Yes, Arches is quite expensive!
I suspect there are papers that are nearly toothless that might work with the crayons as long as I don't use water. But I do use water, so that limits the choices. Otherwise I could just use kitchen wax paper! Hmmm, wonder about kitchen parchment. I'll have to experiment.
I've certainly worked with toothy watercolor paper forever, so I'll have to figure out how to make it work for these watercolor crayons too.
 
You could try Bristol board? It's heavy and very smooth (far too smooth for me, and I use ink a lot). I haven't tried it with water though but from what I understand it can take a light amount.
 
You could try Bristol board? It's heavy and very smooth (far too smooth for me, and I use ink a lot). I haven't tried it with water though but from what I understand it can take a light amount.
Funny that the art store had it but didn't mention it. I'll take a look.
 
Yes, I know it well, but have only used the cold pressed.
That's why I said "hot press:" NO TOOTH. But you do you. ;)

EDIT:

...Maybe you will get better opinions from other people, expert members in water media here.
 
That's why I said "hot press:" NO TOOTH. But you do you. ;)

EDIT:

...Maybe you will get better opinions from other people, expert members in water media here.
Well, I'm hardly an expert in water media, but I've used ONLY Arches hot press paper for image transfers. In my process, I literally soak that paper in lukewarm water for several minutes to make the fibers swell a bit and be more receptive to the transfers.

I've brayered it, heated it, added colored pencils to it - and I can attest to the abuse it will accept.

I'm sure you understand the concept of hot-vs-cold pressed artist papers, Bart - the pulp is literally sent through a heated press at the time of manufacture, to literally smash out tooth from the paper fibers. Cold pressed papers don't get that heat, so the fibers re-expand and develop their tooth.

That Arches HP is the best out there, in my opinion. You'll pay to get it, but if that's your desire then dig in those pockets! A way to save money is to buy the large sheets (24x36"? Not sure off the cuff) and tear them down. You can get nice deckled edges that way, too.

My two cents. ;)
 
Terri & Ayin, I appreciate the suggestion of Arches HP. I do know Arches papers. I use them. For the money, they're great and they do handle heavy use very well compared to most other papers. Just the way I work with water media, I rarely do either erasing or scrubbing, at which Arches excel. So other papers do me better most of the time, which is just a personal choice. My preference for watercolors is actually Cold Pressed, by the way.

I'm not expecting any of you to follow my travels with Cara D'Ache Neocolor crayons. They are posted here on Creative Spark, but you needn't refer back to those to understand my quest. I started with ordinary charcoal drawing paper and found that even with water the toothiness was too apparent for my taste with this medium. Then tried CP watercolor paper; still rather toothy for the effect I was seeking. Lately using Bockingford (my general overall fave) in their Hot Pressed version, but as you can see from Grasshopper Loop, tooth still quite visible - at least to my eye. Nothing wrong with that, but not quite what I was trying for.

Some folks love tooth visibility in water media and some use it super well! I have done so, but tend to prefer tooth to be filled, or at least that's what I visualize when starting a painting. Might be that crayons don't quite work that way even with water dilution.

Yupo is about as smooth as anything I've ever seen. Not to my taste for water media at all, because it's basically plastic.

Just to be clear, I'm not rejecting the suggestions here. I realize everyone is trying to help. It's entirely possible that what I'm seeking isn't out there, in which case, I'll just have to settle down to using this medium as is and use regular watercolor with it or instead of it.

Not the end of the world if this medium does well what it does well and isn't always useful for my purposes. Just tryin'....
 
If you don't want to use Yupo or Arches Hot press - you can use very heavy Bristol board or paper (acid free). You can't use lots of water on them, but if you tape them down and use a blow dryer on them, they will dry flat. Either is available in small sizes, which you can use for experimenting.
 
If you don't want to use Yupo or Arches Hot press - you can use very heavy Bristol board or paper (acid free). You can't use lots of water on them, but if you tape them down and use a blow dryer on them, they will dry flat. Either is available in small sizes, which you can use for experimenting.
I"m going to look into that, CaliAnn.
 
I found Clairefontaine paint ON Mixed Media, Multi Techniques to be great smooth paper . It can handle an good amount of water, for a mixed media paper. And waterbased paints dry nicely on it.
 
I"m working lately with Caran D'Ache Neocolor II crayons, which I use dry and a bit with water. Need a water friendly paper at least 100 - 140 lb. weight that is as toothless as possible. Hot pressed watercolor isn't really toothless, just less than other textures. Mixed Media papers claim a lot, but are apparently just as toothy and not as water friendly anyway. Yupo is plastic and not what I'm seeking.

Any suggestions FROM EXPERIENCE? Thanks.
Have you tried photography paper?

It's relatively toothless- very smooth, is made to not buckle under a whole surface full of inks, and, if it is matte, it is not coated with anything that would now allow water-based media to 'absorb' some.

I know it is smooth enough to not take colored pencil for crap.
 
Starr, not sure that would work. I do know photo paper.
Cat, Clairfontaine makes my pastel paper, so I know they do good stuff. This material sounds interesting, but not readily available in the US that I can see.
May try Ayin's suggestion of Bristol board.
 
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