Lightbulb moments

[MurrayG]

Hi, I wasn't sure where to post this, but it kinda fits here. Some may know of my pondering and doubts of my work etc ...
I know "some" of my works "work" and it brings me joy, your comments lift me to do better.
While working on "Dancer" I happend to go through a number of Degas pastel works hoping to LEARN something....I do not compare myself in any way. BUT after some looking, I realized - most of his works are twice the size of Dancer, he had access to subjects to sketch, painted and studied for years, AND often used grids for proportions. OMG ... I feel released, he was a wonderful painter but he went through the whole process, where I am playing catch-up...

THEN I realized what was missing from Dancer.... context. Apart from my niggles on overworking, detail, etc, I have come to like the work as JStar said I would.

But I now see what is missing, the stage and props!!!! Context. I like the simplicity and colours, the way 8 can just look at this form, but as much as it glows it would be nice to place her in the world.
Ah, such is life. Im not Degas, did not have access to the opera so must simply accept it.

 

[Artyczar]

Interesting thoughts.

Most of us are not Degas, or any of the Masters.

I am wondering, correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying, that because you have to play catch-up to a Master, you will let this stop you from trying to sell your work? Just curious.

 

[MurrayG]

Interesting thoughts.

Most of us are not Degas, or any of the Masters.

I am wondering, correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying, that because you have to play catch-up to a Master, you will let this stop you from trying to sell your work? Just curious.

Ha! No, it's more that I realized where I am at and there are reasons for my skill level and more the point, I'm am almost ok with it. Not really, but not be so down on myself. Doesn't mean I will stop doubting if a work is good or meets my standards ... But I can stop comparing my work to "masters" and rather learn from them while I can.
If I sell something, that's really great, no I will not stop looking at options to get work out there. Hey, some monetary ego massage is good, yes?

It REALLY helped to see sketches by a master that used a grid and box composition. It also helped to see another great using calipers to measure....
Sure after years of painting and learning, it comes easier for them to Intuit proportion it gave me "freedom" to do the same.
Kinda like, we are all just trying to do the best and using skill, tools and heart to get there....

 

[JStarr]

Hi, I wasn't sure where to post this, but it kinda fits here. Some may know of my pondering and doubts of my work etc ...
I know "some" of my works "work" and it brings me joy, your comments lift me to do better.
While working on "Dancer" I happend to go through a number of Degas pastel works hoping to LEARN something....I do not compare myself in any way. BUT after some looking, I realized - most of his works are twice the size of Dancer, he had access to subjects to sketch, painted and studied for years, AND often used grids for proportions. OMG ... I feel released, he was a wonderful painter but he went through the whole process, where I am playing catch-up...

THEN I realized what was missing from Dancer.... context. Apart from my niggles on overworking, detail, etc, I have come to like the work as JStar said I would.

But I now see what is missing, the stage and props!!!! Context. I like the simplicity and colours, the way 8 can just look at this form, but as much as it glows it would be nice to place her in the world.
Ah, such is life. Im not Degas, did not have access to the opera so must simply accept it.

None of us are Degas- and Degas wasn't REALLY Degas until the late 1800s!

And then, because being an artist doesn't stop one from being an idiot, he became a monkish, cantakerous, rude and nasty man who painted and sculpted and photographed by himself because he was a social idiot, mistaking human company for some kind of artistic-drain. Plus, antisemetic. Also likely sexist, but who knows- most men were at the time.

You are doing remarkably well. Graphing to get proportions right is not wrong- neither is projecting and tracing- whatever gets the right tones and values in the right places is right.

So do her AGAIN, and this time, put her in front of a atmospheric stage curtain- not a lot of detail, but enough to see it's a curtain.

And maybe one lone red rose, tossed by an admirer from the audience....

 

[Donna T]

Murray, I only recently learned that Degas used photography to help him create his groundbreaking compositions. All of those impossible views of dancers were not only because he was great at drawing - he used photos. Check out the women ironing on page 39 of this article. No wonder he got their muscular arms so right! There are dancers on page 4. The world has already seen what an Edgar could do; now it needs to see what Murray can do.

 

[MurrayG]

So do her AGAIN, and this time, put her in front of a atmospheric stage curtain- not a lot of detail, but enough to see it's a curtain.

And maybe one lone red rose, tossed by an admirer from the audience....

Hi J, yes I get that he wasn't one of the most proper types. Let's just say that all things aside, there are lessons in his work and colour. And, yes maybe I will do as you suggest with Dancer. Thanks as always, something new to consider

 

[MurrayG]

Murray, I only recently learned that Degas used photography to help him create his groundbreaking compositions. All of those impossible views of dancers were not only because he was great at drawing - he used photos. Check out the women ironing on page 39 of this article. No wonder he got their muscular arms so right! There are dancers on page 4. The world has already seen what an Edgar could do; now it needs to see what Murray can do.

That I didn't know, oh the cheater.... feel better already!! Thanks heaps.

 

[JStarr]

Hi J, yes I get that he wasn't one of the most proper types. Let's just say that all things aside, there are lessons in his work and colour. And, yes maybe I will do as you suggest with Dancer. Thanks as always, something new to consider

Don't read up too much on Renoir, or Matisse, or Monet, or Manet---

Humans, all of 'em.

 

[snoball]

That I didn't know, oh the cheater.... feel better already!! Thanks heaps.

How is that cheating? Don't we all use any means at our disposal to achieve our final results?

 

[Artyczar]

Yes! What exactly is "cheating" anyway? Is the only legit way of making art being able to draw and paint perfectly with our eyes closed? We should be able to render things in some magic way without any references? I'd like some examples of artists of the past who have been able to do this. And if there are some (Leonardo?), should we all give up on calling ourselves artists?

 

[Bartc]

It's all "art", regardless. Some work it alone, some with assistance, some with props and devices, some straight out of their minds and the stratosphere! Take your pick, but it's all art ---- unless it's pure plagiarism, which is another debate we've already beaten to death.

I think our concepts of masters are really not accurate in many cases, but can't prove it. Hockney did a great job about the camera obscura, others about the camera lucida being used by masters long before photography. So what? You mean that caveman or cavewoman who sprayed pigment around their hands on cave walls 40,000 years ago was "cheating"? I think not.

Da Vinci carved up cadavers to copy human anatomy. Audubon killed birds in order to have still models for his famous paintings. And you're going to tell me that those pictures we see of Impressionists 150 years ago painting oils in their best (and probably only) suits aren't PR photos vs. real working photos? We've been fed and feed ourselves on myths.

I'm content enough to enjoy the results. I'll never be in their minds/bodies to enjoy the creation - the true art process - that they did in that moment, but I can always enjoy the end products and use those to inspire my own works. Then I can enjoy the true art process in producing my own sorta masterpieces (or not.)

Murray, you may never be Degas, but you'll always be an original. An original Murray is worth something. Just don't cut off your ear in frustration, OK?

 

[MurrayG]

It's all "art", regardless.

Hi Bart. Good you stopped me in time, the ear was beginning to look like it needed a trim. Funny tho. I have a copy of VanGogh done by one of my mentors who gave me lesson for a bit many years ago. (Yes it's the one with him in a hat) Andy was a bit bipolar, funny how these themes hang about....
I've had only a little time to scribble as I'm trying to finish this book. I'm itching to go up the hill, fall colours are here and first high snow. I will need to exercise the demon soon. Recently I've become more comfortable calling myself an artist... Maybe that's a healing, doubts aside maybe.
A question tho... If a person produces ONE masterpiece in their life, what does that say? As my own harshef critic, there is also an element of who is the person deciding it's a great work?
Art becomes deeply philosophical at times.
Ahhh, back to the drawing board I guess....

 

[Bartc]

Hi Bart. Good you stopped me in time, the ear was beginning to look like it needed a trim. Funny tho. I have a copy of VanGogh done by one of my mentors who gave me lesson for a bit many years ago. (Yes it's the one with him in a hat) Andy was a bit bipolar, funny how these themes hang about....
I've had only a little time to scribble as I'm trying to finish this book. I'm itching to go up the hill, fall colours are here and first high snow. I will need to exercise the demon soon. Recently I've become more comfortable calling myself an artist... Maybe that's a healing, doubts aside maybe.
A question tho... If a person produces ONE masterpiece in their life, what does that say? As my own harshef critic, there is also an element of who is the person deciding it's a great work?
Art becomes deeply philosophical at times.
Ahhh, back to the drawing board I guess....

Murray, go back to the literal drawing board, inside or outside! That's all that counts.

One in a lifetime? Assuming others would consider it a masterpiece, that might be well enough for almost any practicing artist.

Trouble is that most need to die before they get that seal of approval. That's the real tragedy.

And don't cut off your ear just because it gets frostbite painting the snow, amigo.