Canvas coated panels vs stretched canvas.

[john]

I've been wondering about stretched canvas vs panels. I think I like the idea of panels better for these reasons.....

A stretched canvas can get easily pierced with say, a thrown shoe or someone staggering into the painting. If one wants to speak "archival" then this is a big practical consideration.

Stretched canvases are weird to paint at the edges. The frames often makes it different there. And it's stretched,....it stretches. Which means it moves. Contracts expands. Amazing it works so well considering.

Panels aren't easily broken, they can be had cheap, they present an even surface. There is nothing stretching or expanding, as much.

Canvas panels can give a look of canvas without the above problems.

Canvas panels can be reinforced with a wood frame behind if warping.

They are cheap and easy. No stretching. The acid free ones will probably last five hundred years.

One advantage to canvas is that very large works are lighter and can be rolled, maybe. But if one is painting smaller than 1x1 meter/yard I don't see the advantage. But I haven't painted a lot in oil and don't do portraits so maybe I'm missing something.

Thoughts? The cheap canvas/mdf panel route almost sounds too easy somehow so I'm second guessing.

 

[Enyaw]

Perhaps a sample of what you call a cheap panel. You can make panels using whiteboard or mdf but you still have to cut canvas, glue, gesso. The cheap canvas on cardboard warp to the high heavens. Good panels are expensive… at least here in Canada. Panels take a lot less space for storage and make better supports. After years stretched canvas dry out and can become brittle if you have to take them apart. I paint on paper which cost about 2 bucks for an eleven by fourteen piece as they never get out of my basement archives. If I seriously want one to go I can glue it to a wooden panel at that time.

 

[TK H-H]

If you can find them for a good price, then panels are easier to deal with in my opinion. I like panels for framing. I put my panel pieces in frames bought and refinished from thrift stores. They'll fit in just about any frame if you pop the glass out (well... unless the backing is thick). They're nicer for storage too. Stretched canvases take up a lot of space fast.

That being said, I like the feel of stretched better. Something about that slight "bounce" while painting that I like. And they can easily be hung without a frame.

My only complaint with panels is warping. They warp easily unless you buy the more expensive ones. That being said... I've had some paintings on panels warp, but once I put them in frames, it wasn't noticeable.

 

[john]

Perhaps a sample of what you call a cheap panel. You can make panels using whiteboard or mdf but you still have to cut canvas, glue, gesso. The cheap canvas on cardboard warp to the high heavens. Good panels are expensive… at least here in Canada. Panels take a lot less space for storage and make better supports. After years stretched canvas dry out and can become brittle if you have to take them apart. I paint on paper which cost about 2 bucks for an eleven by fourteen piece as they never get out of my basement archives. If I seriously want one to go I can glue it to a wooden panel at that time.

These are what I was looking at Wayne.

• Heavy-Weight: 8-Ounce Triple Primed Acid Free Surface. Each Panel is pre-primed and ready to be painted on
• Durable Construction: 100% Cotton Canvas Surface - Hand Stretched & Glued Over High Quality MDF Cardboard Backerboards
• Professional ArtIST Quality: 1/16" Thickness Profile & 8-Ounce Triple Primed with Acid-Free White Gesso

12 16x20 of them come out to about five bucks each.

I can see them warping but I think that's easily fixed by adding wood backing. Or maybe gatorboard.

 

[john]

If you can find them for a good price, then panels are easier to deal with in my opinion. I like panels for framing. I put my panel pieces in frames bought and refinished from thrift stores. They'll fit in just about any frame if you pop the glass out (well... unless the backing is thick). They're nicer for storage too. Stretched canvases take up a lot of space fast.

That being said, I like the feel of stretched better. Something about that slight "bounce" while painting that I like. And they can easily be hung without a frame.

My only complaint with panels is warping. They warp easily unless you buy the more expensive ones. That being said... I've had some paintings on panels warp, but once I put them in frames, it wasn't noticeable.

Yeah I've heard about the bounce thing but I've painted on both and never noticed. Probably technique dependent. Coming from watercolor I'm used to an unyielding surface.

 

[Enyaw]

1/16 will surely warp.

 

[john]

Hmmm yeah 1/16 is quite thin. Good point. Thanks. I was thinking of the two panels I have that are 1/8. See that's why I asked. Surprised I missed that.

I've made my own before also with 1/4 MDF. But then it's more work.

 

[Bartc]

Years (decades) ago I made my own from tempered hardboard I bought at the hardware stores and gessoed with one or two coats of acrylic gesso. Usually labeled "tempered Masonite". Worked fine and have held up for those decades for acrylic works with no sign of warping nor discoloration or deterioration. I never knew about so didn't go for the extensive sealer treatments and it appears that didn't matter.

On one really large painting it did warp, but the reason was years sitting under a serious roof leak in my garage. Even with that, screwing it into a sturdy frame took the warps out.

For many years I also bought the commercially prepared artist grade supposedly "archival" primed MDF panels in art stores. I prefer them to canvas and they work fine. No longer inexpensive, but still affordable.

I do not love the "bounce" back effect of canvas, however, so the hard surface suited my techniques.

 

[Artyczar]

It's more expensive, but for oil painting, I really like those Ampersand Gessoboards, only because they are sanded so darn smooth. I rather dislike canvas for their toothy surface. I don't like painting on them and I don't like the look, which is why I will paint a lot thicker on canvi. I like linen a bit more because it feel more velvety to me. Even still, I prefer sealed panels or Gessoboard.

 

[Bartc]

It's more expensive, but for oil painting, I really like those Ampersand Gessoboards, only because they are sanded so darn smooth. I rather dislike canvas for their toothy surface. I don't like painting on them and I don't like the look, which is why I will paint a lot thicker on canvi. I like linen a bit more because it feel more velvety to me. Even still, I prefer sealed panels or Gessoboard.

Yeah, those are what I use these days. Good quality.

 

[john]

The Ampersand panels look good. I actually have some in small size that I forgot about since they are too small for what I want to do now. The other one I'm looking at is the

Centurion Deluxe Professional Oil Primed Linen Canvas Panels​

• Features: Acid-free, archival linen panels, 11oz. oil primed, Made Of medium Weight linen, exclusive OP enhanced oil Priming, mounted on 3mm (1/8") MDF Wood board, medium Weight and Texture, and non warping
• Perfect For: Artists of All skill levels, oil and alkyd Painting, archival longevity, linen lovers expecting the best, Professional artists, commissioned work, and Traveling
• OP Enhanced Priming: Exclusive Enhanced Oil Priming is Used for Each of these Canvas panels making for fantastic Color retention

They make a case for special oil priming saying that universal primers absorb the oils more?

Seems like they are about the same cost. The Youtuber Tanner Steed https://www.tannersteedart.com/ uses them and he is a pretty good painter to say the least.


One thing for sure is that I'm going to use panels now, and skip the cheap stuff and use one of these. I've never tried linen so I might try the Centurion.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[WFMartin]

Within the past few years, I've been painting almost exclusively on solid panels, instead of stretched fabric canvases. The reason is that I believe there is much less flexing taking place on a stable material such as a panel, than on a flexible, stretched canvas.

When I want to paint on a smooth surface, I purchase MDF, or hardboard. I sand it, and then apply several coats of acrylic primer to it, on front, back, and all four edges.

When I want a canvas surface, either linen, or cotton, I purchase RayMar Panels. I don't believe in messing around trying to glue fabric to a panel by myself. My time is better spent in painting, than in all that sort of craft work, which may, or may not hold up to the ravages of time. The head office of RayMar Panels is just a few miles up the highway for me, and it's an easy drive to pick up panels of any size, whenever I need them. I realize that not everyone is so fortunate, because, except for a few of us local painters, they do primarily a mail order business.

 

[Enyaw]

RayMar Panels .. best panels I ever painted on but if you are not selling they are far too expensive for a satisfied mind .. at least with my pocket book anyway .

 

[john]

RayMar Panels .. best panels I ever painted on but if you are not selling they are far too expensive for a satisfied mind .. at least with my pocket book anyway .

Yeah and with your output the cost is certainly a consideration. Your oil bill alone must be up there.

I suspect that oil paper mounted on a board would last just as long as any pre-made panel. But there is probably a strength to canvas that paper could not equal. They are both cotton but threads are stronger.

 

[Enyaw]

Your oil bill alone must be up there.

. .. for amusement look up Raymar panels and the cost.

 

[Bongo]

I buy 4ft x 8ft "thrifty" white panels at Home Depot for $20. - have them cut into 24"x48" for easy transport, then at home cut them to the size I need with a table saw. If you don't have a table saw, you could use a jig saw (as cheap as $20.)
They're 1/8" thick and have a slick white coating on one side. That coating is so good I also cover the tables in my studio, dresser tops, counters, etc. Waterproof, just wipe up spills -

Back in the day I started painting on those canvas-covered cardboard panels. Never warped, I scoffed at people who complained about them. So I bought some recently just for the convenience of them... OMG they warped like pretzels. I would advise to stay clear of them.

For larger paintings - over 18"x24" - panels are good, but a bit heavy - I recently found that Marshalls Dept. Store often has stretched canvas crazy cheap. I bought a 24"x36" gallery wrapped on 1 1/4 " stretcher bars for $12. and two 40"x30" with 3/4" stretchers for _$14. They have sizes bigger and smaller 12"x12" etc . And I've found them to be tight as a drum and good quality. I usually put on an extra coat of gesso, but I've painted on smaller ones straight out of the wrapper with no problems.

 

[Enyaw]

white panels

That’s the board I used and did the same. Cut it to transport size and then cut them with a skill saw and a hand built saw guide as I had no table saw. It’s a pain in the ass but good panels. I gessoed the untreated side and the white backing resisted warp from the paint. I should have spent more time painting instead of making panels.

 

[john]

With the right surface I can paint like Daniel Sprick. Just have to find it.

 

[Artyczar]

I've used the Centurions and really like them, but I have not used the RayMar. Now I want to check them out.

 

[WFMartin]

Last time i checked, RayMar panels were about equal to the cost of a similarly-primed, cotton, or linen, stretched canvas that you might purchase from a regular art supply store. Perhaps their prices have risen since I last purchased them.