Canvas coated panels vs stretched canvas.
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WFMartin
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Yes, the Oil-Primed Linen Panels are exquisite. And, yes, the acrylic-primed cotton panels are cheaper. I've used them both, and that was when I was showing, and selling quite a bit of my work. When one sells their work, they can generally afford panels that are a bit more pircey.
Marksmomagain
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[QUOTE="Bongo
Back in the day I started painting on those canvas-covered cardboard panels. Never warped, I scoffed at people who complained about them. So I bought some recently just for the convenience of them... OMG they warped like pretzels. I would advise to stay clear of
[/QUOTE]
Me, too .... back in the early 1980's, I bought a couple Fredrix Red Lion panels at the store. They were nice and thick, never warped... Then a local artist passed away and the estate was selling their supplies and equipment. Aside from paint (that's for another post!), I purchased about 250 Red Lion panels of all sizes. I have about 135 left unpainted, and they have been stored in the cellar, the barn, the attic, and finally in my little studio for over forty years, now. The bigger ones are stored under the bed in the guest room. Not one is warped. I see them every day, perfectly fine. I have a few framed paintings and and one has a slight bow, and the rest are stored flat so no warpage there. They were my favorites. The ones in the hobby stores today don't compare..
Back in the day I started painting on those canvas-covered cardboard panels. Never warped, I scoffed at people who complained about them. So I bought some recently just for the convenience of them... OMG they warped like pretzels. I would advise to stay clear of
[/QUOTE]
Me, too .... back in the early 1980's, I bought a couple Fredrix Red Lion panels at the store. They were nice and thick, never warped... Then a local artist passed away and the estate was selling their supplies and equipment. Aside from paint (that's for another post!), I purchased about 250 Red Lion panels of all sizes. I have about 135 left unpainted, and they have been stored in the cellar, the barn, the attic, and finally in my little studio for over forty years, now. The bigger ones are stored under the bed in the guest room. Not one is warped. I see them every day, perfectly fine. I have a few framed paintings and and one has a slight bow, and the rest are stored flat so no warpage there. They were my favorites. The ones in the hobby stores today don't compare..
Bongo
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If you paint with Acrylics you won't be able to use the oil-primed panels.
I've tried sealing those canvas panels with lineco (pva sealent) AFTER I painted on them, and BEFORE I painted on them, - and they still warped an unacceptable amount.
I'm going to try spraying with an automotive primer-sealer (see: https://creativespark.art/threads/second-act-for-panels.6043/#post-100851 ) and see if that keeps them from warping.
My hardboard panels for a 16"x20" cost me less than $2. each. Those Centurion oil primed lined Canvas Panels you linked are $20 for a 16"x20". That makes them TEN TIMES more expensive.
I first heard of this support back when the Cellini Studio Products forum was around. Looking up the durability at the time I decided to give it a pass because in commercial use tests it was slightly heat sensitive and to some types of solvent. Not the worst support, but not worth the effort for me.
For small and medium sizes, I use cheap premade hardboard panels with reverse side pinewood edge supports on top of which I glue fine linen to the front surface with no wrap around the sides.
The disadvantage (ease of damage) of stretched linen (which I still use for larger sizes) is also an advantage. If the painting doesn't work, rip it off and start again on the same stretcher. Linen has gotten so expensive now though. When my roll runs out, I'm not sure of my next choice.
The disadvantage (ease of damage) of stretched linen (which I still use for larger sizes) is also an advantage. If the painting doesn't work, rip it off and start again on the same stretcher. Linen has gotten so expensive now though. When my roll runs out, I'm not sure of my next choice.
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This one was done on ABS many years ago (like 15 or more) and it has held up very well. Looks much like the day I painted it.
john
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I was just reading about one painter that stretches his own finest linen, uses rabbit skin glue, white lead oil ground, and then self ground pigment applied with glue to the surface before painting. Because he says that if you want to paint masterpieces you need to use the best materials and methods.
And I guess that after one has done all that you damn well better paint something good.
I gotta find me some rabbits. Animal sacrifice adds to it I guess. And lead is always nice to play with.
And I guess that after one has done all that you damn well better paint something good.
I gotta find me some rabbits. Animal sacrifice adds to it I guess. And lead is always nice to play with.
Enyaw
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BS .. like guitars .. a bad player can make a good guitar sound bad and a good player can make a bad guitar sound good.
Glad to see and hear it.
john
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I know, I don't agree with that idea either. I could have the best golf clubs and I would still play some pretty bad golf.
I have tried just about every surface imaginable but I usually only go with 2 surfaces. My favorite is ACM panels aka "Dibond" followed by tempered hardboard from Lowes. I haven't painted on a canvas surface for a long time and don't miss it one bit.
The tempered hardboard from Home Depot in the past has always been significantly inferior to that from Lowes, plus it is always warped at the HD. Lowes stores it on flat full suport shelves. I seal with clear acrylic medium then gesso for acrylics to avoid the brown bleed through that has happened far too often with just gesso. With oils the clear seal isn't necessary.
$12.95 for the thinner stuff
$24 for the thicker panels
On the ACM panels, I buy the lower cost brands from sign shop wholesalers like the Moncor E-Panel from Montroy Supply. They are black ABS cores with white primed aluminum surface sheets. I prep them for oils and acrylics with the MITRA recommended Sherwin Williams DTM primer. Like everything else over the last few years the price has gone up on the ACM and tempered hardboard, but they are still not too spendy the quality. Anything over about 9x12 I go wtih ACM panels.
The Moncor E-Panel is $73 for a 4x8 foot 3mm thick panel and $98 for a 4mm. The 4mm is rigid enough for 48" plus widths without the need for bracing if it is going in a frame. For a floating painting withoutj a frame, I would put some aluminum bracing on the back where it can't be seeen. Zero loss when dividing into smaller pieces as you can snap cut them with a box cutter and straight edge. I usully score them at least 3 times for an easier snap, particularly on the thicker ACM panels. This guy only scores once.
I used to think canvas was king but over the years I have grown to quite dislike the look that the canvas forces into your painting. I prefer to create my own textures with the brush rather than a repetetive mechanical weave permeating my entire painting. I like a flat, smooth surface or a textured one that I create myself with variety across the plane.
The tempered hardboard from Home Depot in the past has always been significantly inferior to that from Lowes, plus it is always warped at the HD. Lowes stores it on flat full suport shelves. I seal with clear acrylic medium then gesso for acrylics to avoid the brown bleed through that has happened far too often with just gesso. With oils the clear seal isn't necessary.
$12.95 for the thinner stuff
$24 for the thicker panels
On the ACM panels, I buy the lower cost brands from sign shop wholesalers like the Moncor E-Panel from Montroy Supply. They are black ABS cores with white primed aluminum surface sheets. I prep them for oils and acrylics with the MITRA recommended Sherwin Williams DTM primer. Like everything else over the last few years the price has gone up on the ACM and tempered hardboard, but they are still not too spendy the quality. Anything over about 9x12 I go wtih ACM panels.
The Moncor E-Panel is $73 for a 4x8 foot 3mm thick panel and $98 for a 4mm. The 4mm is rigid enough for 48" plus widths without the need for bracing if it is going in a frame. For a floating painting withoutj a frame, I would put some aluminum bracing on the back where it can't be seeen. Zero loss when dividing into smaller pieces as you can snap cut them with a box cutter and straight edge. I usully score them at least 3 times for an easier snap, particularly on the thicker ACM panels. This guy only scores once.
I used to think canvas was king but over the years I have grown to quite dislike the look that the canvas forces into your painting. I prefer to create my own textures with the brush rather than a repetetive mechanical weave permeating my entire painting. I like a flat, smooth surface or a textured one that I create myself with variety across the plane.
Bongo
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I had stopped painting on canvas, too, except recently, the prices of decent stretched canvas have gone way down. I bought some in the larger sizes since they're much lighter than hardboard, which is my go-to surface.
I have hundreds of acrylic paintings made before I switched to oil. Needing more space, I went through and culled out some of the worst. So I had a stack ready to chuck when I started thinking what I waste when I could paint over them. I kept about 40 to repaint, so I won't need any substrate for a while.
I too found Home Depot's hardboard inferior to Lowes. But I now paint on "thrifty panels" = 1/8" hardboard, with a slick white coating on one side. About $20 for a 4'x8' sheet. No need to prep the whiteside and provides a clean look on the back of a painting.
I have hundreds of acrylic paintings made before I switched to oil. Needing more space, I went through and culled out some of the worst. So I had a stack ready to chuck when I started thinking what I waste when I could paint over them. I kept about 40 to repaint, so I won't need any substrate for a while.
I too found Home Depot's hardboard inferior to Lowes. But I now paint on "thrifty panels" = 1/8" hardboard, with a slick white coating on one side. About $20 for a 4'x8' sheet. No need to prep the whiteside and provides a clean look on the back of a painting.
That would be a time saver for sure. Where are you buying the thrifty panels?
Bongo
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BArtsy
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I either buy panels from SourceTek when the are on sale (holiday times) or I make my own using canvas remnants using 1/8" birch or MDF panels.
One of the things I"ve really found helps with the warping issue on the boards is to coat the back with something like GAC-100 to seal the panel- this helps tremendously. When I make my own panels, I coat both front, back and sides with GAC-100 and have very little warping...
I tend not to use panels that have the fiber core like the inexpensive panels sold at art stores in packs, so have no idea...
And yes, panels are much more archival than stretched canvas- there is less "movement" over time of the surface and the paint is less likely to crack than on stretched canvas
One of the things I"ve really found helps with the warping issue on the boards is to coat the back with something like GAC-100 to seal the panel- this helps tremendously. When I make my own panels, I coat both front, back and sides with GAC-100 and have very little warping...
I tend not to use panels that have the fiber core like the inexpensive panels sold at art stores in packs, so have no idea...
And yes, panels are much more archival than stretched canvas- there is less "movement" over time of the surface and the paint is less likely to crack than on stretched canvas
