What Are You Listening To?
- Thread starter stlukesguild
- Start date
stlukesguild
Well-known member
- Messages
- 2,524
As far as I can tell, many of his contemporaries were rather dismissive of his work, but at least some of his huge output seems to have slipped fairly firmly into the repertoire now...
... I once saw his name mentioned in an article in which the writer lamented the way in which contemporary classical composers have become completely alienated from the public. Szymanowski was mentioned as an example of the days when people actually flocked to the concerts of contemporary composers.
The same bias occurred in visual art and literature. There was an influential clique of artists, writers, composers, theorists, and critics bought into the notion that Modernism spelled the death of the whole tradition prior. There were those who dismissed Bonnard and even Matisse as being too traditionally "beautiful" and decorative... unlike Picasso. Soon after that, we had those dismissing Picasso for failing to take the step into pure abstraction. The same happened in Classical Music. Composers like Richard Strauss, Puccini, Sibelius, Rachmaninoff, Ralph Vaughan Williams, Aaron Copland, and even Shostakovitch were dismissed as being too conservative and even reactionary. If we listen to many of the critics even today the most important composers of the 20th century were Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Alban Berg, Anton Webern, John Cage, Ligetti, Pierre Boulez, Olivier Messiaen, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Luciano Berio, Morton Feldman, etc... I enjoy some work by most of these composers from time to time with the exception of Stockhausen, Feldman, and Schoenberg... and I fully agree that Stravinsky was one of the greatest composers of the century. But if we look at the number of recordings made, sales, and live performances it seems that a great many classical music lovers prefer Puccini, Richard Strauss, Sibelius, Aaron Copland, Rachmaninoff, Leonard Bernstein, etc... We cannot suggest that the audience is simply not caught up with these artists. A good many of the most "important" works by the tied-in-the-wool Modernists are 75 or even 100 years old or older. Puccini, Richard Strauss, Sibelius, Aaron Copland, Rachmaninoff, Leonard Bernstein, Szymanowski, etc... are all firmly part of the repertoire.
... I once saw his name mentioned in an article in which the writer lamented the way in which contemporary classical composers have become completely alienated from the public. Szymanowski was mentioned as an example of the days when people actually flocked to the concerts of contemporary composers.
The same bias occurred in visual art and literature. There was an influential clique of artists, writers, composers, theorists, and critics bought into the notion that Modernism spelled the death of the whole tradition prior. There were those who dismissed Bonnard and even Matisse as being too traditionally "beautiful" and decorative... unlike Picasso. Soon after that, we had those dismissing Picasso for failing to take the step into pure abstraction. The same happened in Classical Music. Composers like Richard Strauss, Puccini, Sibelius, Rachmaninoff, Ralph Vaughan Williams, Aaron Copland, and even Shostakovitch were dismissed as being too conservative and even reactionary. If we listen to many of the critics even today the most important composers of the 20th century were Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Alban Berg, Anton Webern, John Cage, Ligetti, Pierre Boulez, Olivier Messiaen, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Luciano Berio, Morton Feldman, etc... I enjoy some work by most of these composers from time to time with the exception of Stockhausen, Feldman, and Schoenberg... and I fully agree that Stravinsky was one of the greatest composers of the century. But if we look at the number of recordings made, sales, and live performances it seems that a great many classical music lovers prefer Puccini, Richard Strauss, Sibelius, Aaron Copland, Rachmaninoff, Leonard Bernstein, etc... We cannot suggest that the audience is simply not caught up with these artists. A good many of the most "important" works by the tied-in-the-wool Modernists are 75 or even 100 years old or older. Puccini, Richard Strauss, Sibelius, Aaron Copland, Rachmaninoff, Leonard Bernstein, Szymanowski, etc... are all firmly part of the repertoire.
stlukesguild
Well-known member
- Messages
- 2,524
Continuing with Szymanowski. The pieces here all feature piano and violin. I quite like these pieces. Szymanowski pushes tonality like Wagner and Strauss... but never fully abandons it. The piano tends toward the shimmering akin to some works of Debussy while the violin contrasts this in a rich Romanticism.
stlukesguild
Well-known member
- Messages
- 2,524
Albéric Magnard was a French late Romantic composer. He was often called the French Bruchner, but he never approaches Bruchner's grandiosity of scale. He gently explores stretching tonality ala Wagner, Mahler, and Richard Strauss... but never to the extent of these composers, let alone Schoenberg. His Romanticism has a great degree classical structure to it. Magnard studied with Jules Massenet and Vincent d'Indy. His output was limited to 22 published works. Like Charles-Camille Saint-Saëns, his works are polished gems. Magnard became a French hero in 1914 during WWI, a year after his last (4th) symphony when he died defending his home from invading German troops.
brianvds
Well-known member
- Messages
- 951
Another new one to go explore, assuming he's featured on YouTube.
I see in Wikipedia he was "pro-Dreyfus." And it reminded me that however crazy we may think politics has become, there is actually nothing new there: the whole Dreyfus thing reminds strongly of more recent events, in which people's interpretation of some or other event depends not on the available evidence, but purely on their politics. People watch a video of the same event, and literally see two different things, depending on what they believed in the first place.
Pity he had to go shoot at the German troops. They would probably have ransacked the house for food but left his scores alone.
Enyaw
namuh
- Messages
- 7,024
stlukesguild
Well-known member
- Messages
- 2,524
My idiot former studio partner hated this collection... especially the Divertissement. He said it sounded like "Bugs Bunny Music". Certainly there are elements of jazz and even madcap suggestions of Spike Jones. Brian might like the manner in which this music intentionally dismissed the high seriousness of Wagner and other late Romantics. But then again, other works in this collection are quite sensuous and evocative... especially Escales. I need something light and fun after the build up to the first day of online school today.
brianvds
Well-known member
- Messages
- 951
The French composers poured some much needed cold water on all that Germanic seriousness.
Desforges
Well-known member
- Messages
- 1,295
Yes, saw her in concert once. Moves like a mountain and sings like the wildest winds.
Last edited:
stlukesguild
Well-known member
- Messages
- 2,524
Well... the French have their degrees of "seriousness": Alkan, Franck, Berlioz, Leonin, Perotin, Dez Prez, Lully, Roussell, Tournemire, and of course Pierre Boulez. The Austro-Germans have Mozart's Cosi fan tutte and The Magic Flute... and his Dissonance Quartet... and do we even need to mention Leck mich im Arsch? Bach's Coffee Cantata, Beethoven's Scherzos, Offenbach (born in Germany), Johann Strauss, Richard Strauss' Don Quixote. The Russians strike me as more consistently bombastic... melodramatic... and even bombastic. Even Wagner and Mahler for all their bombast at times, are frequently quite delicate and sensitive. The French and Italians are frequently more playful while the Austro-Germans are more highly structured... even as Romantics.
stlukesguild
Well-known member
- Messages
- 2,524
I think the Offenbach, Gilbert and Sullivan, and American popular music poured more water on the entire classical tradition than the French.
stlukesguild
Well-known member
- Messages
- 2,524
Three bluesier... more mellow jazz selections to chill out after endless hours working on the computer.
stlukesguild
Well-known member
- Messages
- 2,524
As fine as Baez' voice is, Dylan sings Dylan better.
brianvds
Well-known member
- Messages
- 951
All true - there is not really any lasting national character to music. I was thinking more specifically of a generation of French composers that were trying to escape the looming shadow of Wagner. Some started as avid fans (Debussy comes to mind), but many eventually rejected his aesthetic, and came up with their own unique thing.
stlukesguild
Well-known member
- Messages
- 2,524
All true - there is not really any lasting national character to music. I was thinking more specifically of a generation of French composers that were trying to escape the looming shadow of Wagner. Some started as avid fans (Debussy comes to mind), but many eventually rejected his aesthetic, and came up with their own unique thing.
Yes. Wagner was a towering figure not merely in music but throughout the whole of the Arts. Baudelaire, Verlaine, Oscar Wilde, Proust, Odilon Redon, Moreau, Dore, etc... were all profoundly influenced by Wagner... to say nothing of Wagner, Tchaikovsky, Richard Strauss, Debussy, Schoenberg, etc... Wagnerian sound and ideas (especially the leitmotif) still dominate film scores. He was like Picasso... a figure you had to get over or around... but couldn't really ignore. The visual arts seem to have been able to get around Wagner and High Romanticism and Post-Romanticism thanks to the strength of the Impressionists.
Yes. Wagner was a towering figure not merely in music but throughout the whole of the Arts. Baudelaire, Verlaine, Oscar Wilde, Proust, Odilon Redon, Moreau, Dore, etc... were all profoundly influenced by Wagner... to say nothing of Wagner, Tchaikovsky, Richard Strauss, Debussy, Schoenberg, etc... Wagnerian sound and ideas (especially the leitmotif) still dominate film scores. He was like Picasso... a figure you had to get over or around... but couldn't really ignore. The visual arts seem to have been able to get around Wagner and High Romanticism and Post-Romanticism thanks to the strength of the Impressionists.
