Have you been asked to just GIVE someone artwork?

[Artyczar]

Fox is giving excellent advice about knowing your policies beforehand. That's my real advice too.

 

[cranberryartworks]

I wonder if a business card with your normal prices on the back would help for events like this.

 

[ZenDruid]

It sounds like these people are disconnected from reality. Something made by hand by an individual they know isn't worth as much as a print for sale in a store.

 

[MurrayG]

Hi folks. It's complicated a little. The village in off tourist season is quite simple and not sophisticated. Most folk here are unsure what to make of me, ex Aussie in Croatia.
In this case I was taken off guard. If I'm out painting PA then I often have people looking and I've manage to cope with it and if asked give a ballpark cost, that typically clears the space .
As it happens literally in the last few days we had need of an "electrician". The same guy came to help. Apart from getting some cash, I gave him a small plein-air. He was super surprised. The last few days he kept thanking and yesterday we were gifted some fresh fish. So, in a way, I think the message has gone out, something for something. Also someone asked about getting something.
It takes a while, maybe it's a learning for everyone.
So after my initial WTF reaction, it's worked out ok. Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the advice and interest.

 

[MurrayG]

It sounds like these people are disconnected from reality. Something made by hand by an individual they know isn't worth as much as a print for sale in a store.

But you are right Zen. Prints on walls here is quite the norm and original art but someone "local" is kinda special, bragging rights etc

 

[stlukesguild]

I often suspect that one of the advantages of working on a large scale as I do, is that no one seems to assume that you are a "mere amateur" or presume to ask for a painting for free. Of course, small paintings can be just as labor-intensive and just as worthy works of art as larger paintings. Every time I visit the National Gallery of Art, Washington, I am struck by how the tiny paintings by Vermeer draw the eye in spite of being surrounded by acres of large Baroque canvases (Rubens, Rembrandt, and Van Dyck excepted).

 

[moscatel]

This kind of thing asking art work for free makes me furious these days. MurrayG, you might have been long time ago a hobbyist but you are now professional artist, your art is real good, you work hard (love your pleinairs and the enjoyment you have for pleinair), you also told us you sell some and it's okay to give for friends if there's a chance and if you're ok giving it as a gift. Don't just give to anybody for free your art, ppl start to talk and everyone around you wants a free one and then you never sell. Every now and then it's really good and rewarding to have some income and sales from our art work. I have learned it's better to paint over/re use canvas/support than give for free. That's my opinion and experience.

 

[Bartc]

Let's make a distinction between a true gift and a demand for a gift.

Some close friends and colleagues have asked for my art. In those cases, if the piece they want isn't my most likely to sell eventually, I'll gladly give it to them on what I call "permanent loan". That is, they must frame and hang it proudly, and if for any reason at any time they don't want to do that, I'll take it back without any hurt feelings, but it must not be further traded or trashed. I figure it's a fair trade in the value of their appreciation for my work.

A couple have attended shows at which my work was for sale, but I told them not to bid on them, because if they didn't sell for my reserve price, I would likely just give it to them. That tactic is because I want someone who is NOT associated with me personally to help me set a market price.

I have allowed a couple of pieces to be in nonprofit fundraising auctions and they did meet the reserves and pleased the purchasers, so that's fine with me too, as I neither received nor asked for compensation. I"m considering a much larger auction like that for the nonprofit I retired from recently, and would ask for 50%, or something on that order.

Those are all forms of "gifts" I'm happy to give.

A demand for something for free would require me to remember that "Miss Manners" abhors responding to rudeness with further rudeness!

 

[Artyczar]

I do fundraiser auctions once, maybe twice a year. That is so very different than people demanding a "gift" for free.

I just finished up one of those "Open Studios Tours," and that was such a mistake. People balked at my prices and wanted me to practically give my art away. I had to bite my tongue not to come back with mean things to say to them, but I did give them dirty looks. I don't go to their jobs and say things like, "Whaaa!? You make HOW much an hour??? That's insane!" It's pretty rude, but you'd be surprised how many people said mean things to me. Not my audience. And I was selling at 60% off my retail prices.

 

[stlukesguild]

Arty... it is always amazing how many people have little or no idea how much "serious" works of art can cost... and frequently no idea (or respect) for how much time, effort... and even cost goes into creating art. For years I shared a large art studio space with several other artists in order to cut costs. Living in Cleveland with the low costs of real estate my studio cost was quite low compared to artists living/working in New York, Chicago, LA, etc... Even so... my studio costs were over $200 a month when you added in electricity, insurance, etc... and more in the Winter... especially if we got one of those brutally cold Winters. One stick of Sennelier pastel can cost upwards of $7 for certain colors. But there were those who assumed that one of my paintings measuring 80"H X 48"W should run $250 or $500. I have joked on more than one occasion that I could not really afford my own paintings. One of my studio partners was one of those who do not help our cause at all by continuously selling his work for far less than it was worth. I had a friend in art school who majored in Graphic Design and now does VERY well working in China. While still in school, he often bought works by other students that he knew were grossly under-priced. He told me once that he often did commercial works for very rich individuals who had no problem spending $15,000 or $20,000 on a dining room table. With this in mind, he decided that there was no way he was going to sell his work for less than he knew it was worth. This was advice that I have always kept in mind... even when selling others' art when I still had a gallery. I had one artist who I had attended school with. She developed allergies to all the various art materials: paints, turpentine, glues, etc... and she turned to collage. She gave me a series of collages the size of postcards to sell and priced them at $20 each... FRAMED! I called her back and told her there was no way I could sell these truly marvelous works for such a price and insisted we raise the price to $225 each. At that price, we sold out the entire show of nearly 20 works. I doubt they would have been taken seriously... and all sold... at the original price. Artists, don't undervalue your work!

 

[MurrayG]

Hi stlukesguild. I can relate to much of what you talk of having run a gallery in my other life. As a retired ARTIST, yep, I'm now calling myself an Artist..... whew, pastels can really add up. We have had this exact discussion at home over what a work is worth. As my own biggest critic, I can see improvement, but also my mistakes. But I do value the work etc. Most of sold stuff was from early days. Now it's a struggle as to... where the hell can I take this. So, much is gifted or bartered and I am ok with that. The original post was mostly in reaction to that simplistic almost greedy attitude of the region. Nothing I would tolerate elsewhere. I'm pretty sure in Stockholm I could sell from an exhibition, but I'm not there so much ATM.
I have read with interest the reactions to the question, thanks all.

 

[Artyczar]

Arty... it is always amazing how many people have little or no idea how much "serious" works of art can cost... and frequently no idea (or respect) for how much time, effort... and even cost goes into creating art. For years I shared a large art studio space with several other artists in order to cut costs. Living in Cleveland with the low costs of real estate my studio cost was quite low compared to artists living/working in New York, Chicago, LA, etc... Even so... my studio costs were over $200 a month when you added in electricity, insurance, etc... and more in the Winter... especially if we got one of those brutally cold Winters. One stick of Sennelier pastel can cost upwards of $7 for certain colors. But there were those who assumed that one of my paintings measuring 80"H X 48"W should run $250 or $500. I have joked on more than one occasion that I could not really afford my own paintings. One of my studio partners was one of those who do not help our cause at all by continuously selling his work for far less than it was worth. I had a friend in art school who majored in Graphic Design and now does VERY well working in China. While still in school, he often bought works by other students that he knew were grossly under-priced. He told me once that he often did commercial works for very rich individuals who had no problem spending $15,000 or $20,000 on a dining room table. With this in mind, he decided that there was no way he was going to sell his work for less than he knew it was worth. This was advice that I have always kept in mind... even when selling others' art when I still had a gallery. I had one artist who I had attended school with. She developed allergies to all the various art materials: paints, turpentine, glues, etc... and she turned to collage. She gave me a series of collages the size of postcards to sell and priced them at $20 each... FRAMED! I called her back and told her there was no way I could sell these truly marvelous works for such a price and insisted we raise the price to $225 each. At that price, we sold out the entire show of nearly 20 works. I doubt they would have been taken seriously... and all sold... at the original price. Artists, don't undervalue your work!

Thanks for this St. Luke. Yes, I know about how much those Sennelier sticks can sell for. The oil sticks are far more, and a tube of paint for me, for certain colors, can be about $100 each. But why begin explaining to people every bit of why I ask the prices I do? I just don't say a word most of the time, shrug my shoulders, and say, "Sorry...don't know what to tell ya." Otherwise, it looks like I'm making a lot of excuses that they'll never understand.

 

[stlukesguild]

Arty; I certainly wouldn't try to explain why a work of art... mine or someone else's costs as much as it does. As a gallery owner, however, I have done so with artists I feel were grossly undervaluing/underpricing their work. I've also mentioned the price of my materials to a couple of artist friends... and even studio partners who greatly underestimated how expensive my materials are. I had one studio partner who while telling me how much he had spent on his paints, etc... said something of the effect of "You are so lucky; your materials cost almost nothing." He failed to understand that the paper I work on can cost more than canvas and that while one stick of Sennelier cadmium red pastel may cost less than a tube of cadmium red oil paint, I often go through dozens of certain colors of pastel to say nothing of conte crayons, color pencils, etc... A good tube of cadmium red oil paint can last a long, long time... unless you are painting impasto.

 

[Artyczar]

Yeah, I paint pretty thick! And yes, people don't get it and it's worthless to try to explain it. I leave it to the gallery to do that now. Thank goodness. I really hate selling out of the studio. It's too frustrating.

 

[Bartc]

Arty... it is always amazing how many people have little or no idea how much "serious" works of art can cost... and frequently no idea (or respect) for how much time, effort... and even cost goes into creating art. For years I shared a large art studio space with several other artists in order to cut costs. Living in Cleveland with the low costs of real estate my studio cost was quite low compared to artists living/working in New York, Chicago, LA, etc... Even so... my studio costs were over $200 a month when you added in electricity, insurance, etc... and more in the Winter... especially if we got one of those brutally cold Winters. One stick of Sennelier pastel can cost upwards of $7 for certain colors. But there were those who assumed that one of my paintings measuring 80"H X 48"W should run $250 or $500. I have joked on more than one occasion that I could not really afford my own paintings. One of my studio partners was one of those who do not help our cause at all by continuously selling his work for far less than it was worth. I had a friend in art school who majored in Graphic Design and now does VERY well working in China. While still in school, he often bought works by other students that he knew were grossly under-priced. He told me once that he often did commercial works for very rich individuals who had no problem spending $15,000 or $20,000 on a dining room table. With this in mind, he decided that there was no way he was going to sell his work for less than he knew it was worth. This was advice that I have always kept in mind... even when selling others' art when I still had a gallery. I had one artist who I had attended school with. She developed allergies to all the various art materials: paints, turpentine, glues, etc... and she turned to collage. She gave me a series of collages the size of postcards to sell and priced them at $20 each... FRAMED! I called her back and told her there was no way I could sell these truly marvelous works for such a price and insisted we raise the price to $225 each. At that price, we sold out the entire show of nearly 20 works. I doubt they would have been taken seriously... and all sold... at the original price. Artists, don't undervalue your work!

St Lukes, I would love to have you selling my paintings! I am not joking.

 

[stlukesguild]

Yeah, I paint pretty thick! And yes, people don't get it and it's worthless to try to explain it. I leave it to the gallery to do that now. Thank goodness. I really hate selling out of the studio. It's too frustrating.

Arty; when painting thick do you begin with the high-priced paints? When I was still using oils I began using something of the "old master" technique of first blocking in the composition in terms of values using earth tones (burnt sienna, black, ochre, white...) then beginning the full colors using the less expensive paints before using the Cadmiums, etc... in the top layers.

 

[Artyczar]

I used to kind of "cheat" with using, even acrylic layers underneath, but I'm too lazy to take out different paints and then apply others on top. Once in a while, I'll use some Wintons underneath, but, again--lazy! Seriously. It ends up being costly. I think it's because of my limited space. I have to put things away when I'm done using them so I have space to move around. It's easier to use the caddy with all the good stuff in it. And when I mix the colors I want, those are the ones I want to use through and through. I enjoy using it like frosting! But I end up doing a little bit of what you're talking about because of how I may change my mind as the painting progresses.

 

[stlukesguild]

I used the underpainting technique not so much as a means of saving money, but rather, as a method of first developing the painting in terms of values. The method of oil they taught in my art school was closer to that used by the Impressionists: using a full range of colors immediately on a white canvas. With time, I realized that this made it difficult to develop paintings that employed a more dramatic contrast of dark and light as well as a sense of space. Although I no longer use oil paints nor the illusion of deep space, I still employ the underpainting (in acrylic) as a method of unifying the work as I allow the reddish/browns/siennas to poke through the pastels across the painting as a whole. I largely developed this method on my own inspired by Degas' use of toned papers for his pastels which was just one more thing that set him apart from the other Impressionists.

 

[Artyczar]

I have done a little something like that on a few paintings--flat ones in glazing techniques, but that all sounds (mostly) too complicated for me.

 

[MurrayG]

The method of oil they taught in my art school was closer to that used by the Impressionists: using a full range of colors immediately on a white canvas. With time, I realized that this made it difficult to develop paintings.....I largely developed this method on my own inspired by Degas' use of toned papers for his pastels which was just one more thing that set him apart from the other Impressionists.

Hi Stluke, sorry I chopped your response down... but I think finding your own way is another if those millions of variables that make one work stand away from others. I can admire many different styles & methods, I also often try to deconstruct to understand the method. In the end, its as Arty, Bart and others say, it's up to you to make the rules.....
I have the relative luxury of just doing stuff, sometimes the bin gets topped up, others I'm happy. But yes, the cost can quickly add up.
I just got some more PZtelmat and a few Sennelier sticks ... OMG my poor bankcard.