Bad Art Advice

[Joy]

Ayin, Jessie, Claude, and others - I feel great compassion for anyone who is the target of criticism in the pursuit of any activity for which are impassioned. It must be hell for those that were considering or made art a career. Their courage is greatly applauded, as I would never have had the "guts" to do so. At the end of the day, we have to live with our choices. Athletes, actors, musicians, authors, etc. must all go through the same. IMOSHO, there are many ways to go about any endeavour; one will adapt to what works best. I have never taught, but would never tell a student my way is the only way. Any books, videos, or other forms of instruction one can learn different ways of approaching an activity, and apply it to their chosen passion. Thank goodness for supportive forums like this.

 

[Perry]

I have not experienced some of the cruel criticism that some here have experienced
but what I have experienced is total indifference to my art and to the visual arts in
general by family and friends. I'm not seeking praise from them but maybe just
recognition that it is something that is important to me. There are not even
questions about why I like art or why is it meaningful to me. I find it strange that
we can talk about many other things but never about my art. Forums like this fill that void.

 

[KatShealy]

So, the art community I was a part of prior to this one was mainly populated by younger artists (20's and teens) and a lot of them favored creating manga and anime inspired original characters. No problem there. But when asked how they could improve, I would usually suggest they study some gesture and anatomy to loosen up their subjects and give them fluidity, and to use references for pose ideas. Over and over, I was met with the responses, "References are for 'fake' artists" and "Fundamentals are only for realism artists."

I admit, I once fell prey to the "references = bad" mindset, and it seriously stunted my artistic growth for a long time. "Fundamentals are only for realism artists" flummoxed me though. I think it's seriously flawed thinking that's going to hold a lot of them back until they unlearn it.

Have you guys heard some bad art advice or ideals? Let's discuss!

References are for fake artists? Those poor misguided emotionally numbed children. I'd like to lock them in a vacant room with a manga or anime or whatever and one print of the Mona Lisa. Let's see which one they end up talking to at the end of the month.

 

[KatShealy]

References are for fake artists? Those poor misguided emotionally numbed children. I'd like to lock them in a vacant room with a manga or anime or whatever and one print of the Mona Lisa. Let's see which one they end up talking to at the end of the month.

By the way, I spent two years in Japan. Their art was beautiful and ancient. It was different than what I was used to, but I respected it.

 

[Bartc]

I'm the odd man out here, because most of the folks in my family were artists to one degree or another and I was in fact encouraged to paint.

My mother, who was skilled in many media, even encouraged me to use her paints as I was bed-sitting her in her last weeks of life. Problem was that I was the rebel, so since they all painted, I didn't and took up photography as an art form and as a business for a while. But I always sketched and was always encouraged to do so. Didn't take up painting until about 30 and now it's over 40 years!

Yet, my mother was adamant about "starving artists". She knew many and even had a small gallery of her own for a time. This wasn't bad advice in my book, it was in fact good advice ------ on average. Unfortunately, the art market really sucks, IMHO. I have scolded several Silicon Valley CEOs at times for their lack of appreciation, because their software and hardware would not have sold without the art of good attractive design. In fact, how much of anything sells these days without good advertising art? But appreciation for fine art? Good luck, especially in the era of a lot of the overpriced graffiti or the narcissistic performance pieces that are the darling of the auction houses and museums.

The "bad advice" I have gotten is usually from well meaning artists whose particular vision is limited to the style they were taught, the rules they think all composition must follow. When I see them teaching this to some of my colleagues, I quietly take the painters aside and remind them that their own vision is more important than any rules.

That's my two cents.

 

[Artyczar]

I quietly take the painters aside and remind them that their own vision is more important than any rules.

That's my two cents.

I agree with this part for sure.

 

[Bartc]

By the way, I spent two years in Japan. Their art was beautiful and ancient. It was different than what I was used to, but I respected it.

It takes those raised on European art composition a while to get it. The compositional guidelines are different, but just as effective. In fact, sumi-e was my first painting form and I absolutely adore the zen/ch'an art forms, as did the Impressionists, who were inspired by them.

 

[KatShealy]

I'm the odd man out here, because most of the folks in my family were artists to one degree or another and I was in fact encouraged to paint.

My mother, who was skilled in many media, even encouraged me to use her paints as I was bed-sitting her in her last weeks of life. Problem was that I was the rebel, so since they all painted, I didn't and took up photography as an art form and as a business for a while. But I always sketched and was always encouraged to do so. Didn't take up painting until about 30 and now it's over 40 years!

Yet, my mother was adamant about "starving artists". She knew many and even had a small gallery of her own for a time. This wasn't bad advice in my book, it was in fact good advice ------ on average. Unfortunately, the art market really sucks, IMHO. I have scolded several Silicon Valley CEOs at times for their lack of appreciation, because their software and hardware would not have sold without the art of good attractive design. In fact, how much of anything sells these days without good advertising art? But appreciation for fine art? Good luck, especially in the era of a lot of the overpriced graffiti or the narcissistic performance pieces that are the darling of the auction houses and museums.

The "bad advice" I have gotten is usually from well meaning artists whose particular vision is limited to the style they were taught, the rules they think all composition must follow. When I see them teaching this to some of my colleagues, I quietly take the painters aside and remind them that their own vision is more important than any rules.

That's my two cents.

Thank you so much for your insight. When I visited Moab, Utah I went into an art gallery and enjoyed exploring and appreciating the pottery and all of the handmade pieces of art. Must have taken hours and a lot of love to create. The artist there shook his head when he talked about the tourists complaining about the price of the art. Let's think about that for a moment. How do you put a price on something that you invest that kind of emotion into. If we are made in God's image, yet God cannot be seen because he is a spirit, then what part of Him do we resemble? Maybe a little of His spirit in us would be this innate desire to create.

 

[Artyczar]

But appreciation for fine art? Good luck, especially in the era of a lot of the overpriced graffiti or the narcissistic performance pieces that are the darling of the auction houses and museums.

Well Bartc, I was thinking about this while I was folding my laundry. I have to say, I didn't really care for this comment. First of all, what is wrong with graffiti art, or performance art, or the price of it? Second of all, how is that sort of work the "darling" of auction houses, when all styles of work are being sold at all the auction houses for all kinds of prices? I have also never seen performance art being sold at an action house by the way. (I frequent auction houses!) I have seen it exhibited in museums however. Museums do not sell art. They display it for the public, and some charge admission. And what is wrong with that?

In any case, I'd prefer this place to be inclusive for all kinds of art, not just flowers and lighthouses, or realism, or art that is easy to understand. That includes any art you might not understand or accept. It is not necessary to bash or label "narcissistic" what you may not see eye to eye with. You can have your opinions, but I have mine too. I was going to sit back and be sad about your statement, but decided to come back and voice mine. You say you are the odd man out, but I believe my stance on this subject is probably much more unpopular here now that the climate of the forum is changing.

 

[KatShealy]

Well Bartc, I was thinking about this while I was folding my laundry. I have to say, I didn't really care for this comment. First of all, what is wrong with graffiti art, or performance art, or the price of it? Second of all, how is that sort of work the "darling" of auction houses, when all styles of work are being sold at all the auction houses for all kinds of prices? I have also never seen performance art being sold at an action house by the way. (I frequent auction houses!) I have seen it exhibited in museums however. Museums do not sell art. They display it for the public, and some charge admission. And what is wrong with that?

In any case, I'd prefer this place to be inclusive for all kinds of art, not just flowers and lighthouses, or realism, or art that is easy to understand. That includes any art you might not understand or accept. It is not necessary to bash or label "narcissistic" what you may not see eye to eye with. You can have your opinions, but I have mine too. I was going to sit back and be sad about your statement, but decided to come back and voice mine. You say you are the odd man out, but I believe my stance on this subject is probably much more unpopular here now that the climate of the forum is changing.

Well, I agree, but there are times when I have seen outstanding works of art in the form of graffiti, but when your property becomes their canvas, I have to take exception. A total disregard for the rights of others. After nursing I drove an 18 wheeler for about 3 years. I had to guard my trailer in some cities lest it become a "canvas" for those marauding artists.

 

[Terri]

After nursing I drove an 18 wheeler for about 3 years. I had to guard my trailer in some cities lest it become a "canvas" for those marauding artists.

Okay, now we've moved from a mention of "graffiti" to "marauding artists"! I agree with you, Kat, in the sense that your personal property could well have been vandalized, and if the graffiti were some kind of hate speech images, gang symbols or the like, your outrage is earned.

But I must also push back a little on Bartc's comments about graffiti art in general, because it can be amazingly beautiful, even testimonial in nature - and this style is likely not at all, Bartc, what you were actually referring to when you used the word "graffiti." It sounded more like a slur or insult hurled at art you may not care for, if perhaps it is emotive rather than representative, ie: abstract or contemporary. Performance art by its very nature cannot be auctioned off, unless the artist willingly agrees to perch forever in the winning bidder's home or office.

I promise I'm not trying to pile on you, Bartc, but it would be nice if we all pondered our words and intentions more carefully. Art is subjective - isn't that one of the first things we learn? If we all expressed our souls the same way it would be a pretty boring old world.

For me, Creative Spark is a forum dedicated to showcasing all kinds of art, done by all kinds of people, from all kinds of places - and this should be what unites us.

The "bad advice" I have gotten is usually from well meaning artists whose particular vision is limited to the style they were taught, the rules they think all composition must follow. When I see them teaching this to some of my colleagues, I quietly take the painters aside and remind them that their own vision is more important than any rules.

Hear, hear!

 

[KatShealy]

Okay, now we've moved from a mention of "graffiti" to "marauding artists"! I agree with you, Kat, in the sense that your personal property could well have been vandalized, and if the graffiti were some kind of hate speech images, gang symbols or the like, your outrage is earned.

But I must also push back a little on Bartc's comments about graffiti art in general, because it can be amazingly beautiful, even testimonial in nature - and this style is likely not at all, Bartc, what you were actually referring to when you used the word "graffiti." It sounded more like a slur or insult hurled at art you may not care for, if perhaps it is emotive rather than representative, ie: abstract or contemporary. Performance art by its very nature cannot be auctioned off, unless the artist willingly agrees to perch forever in the winning bidder's home or office.

I promise I'm not trying to pile on you, Bartc, but it would be nice if we all pondered our words and intentions more carefully. Art is subjective - isn't that one of the first things we learn? If we all expressed our souls the same way it would be a pretty boring old world.

For me, Creative Spark is a forum dedicated to showcasing all kinds of art, done by all kinds of people, from all kinds of places - and this should be what unites us.


Hear, hear!

I agree with you. Art is a beautiful way to express who we are and how we see the world. I must admit there have been times when I have sat in my car, waiting for a slow moving train to pass, and found myself mesmerized by the graffiti exhibited on the rail cars. Wow, I think. Look at that. How interesting. And then, if the train is long enough, my thoughts can wander to the poor guy that has to clean it all up. It will never be a perfect world, will it?

 

[ams]

One of the things that I have really enjoyed here at Creative Spark is a broadening of my understanding of what good art is. I have come to understand more fully that art is the expression of emotion or feeling of the artist and that can be done in many different ways and styles. It is more than just a picture of something. It is communication.

 

[KatShealy]

One of the things that I have really enjoyed here at Creative Spark is a broadening of my understanding of what good art is. I have come to understand more fully that art is the expression of emotion or feeling of the artist and that can be done in many different ways and styles. It is more than just a picture of something. It is communication.

Some people say I am too hard on myself when I critique my own art. There is a reason. When I try to express myself and the end result doesn't convey what I'm trying to get across, it is as frustrating as trying to find the right words and being totally misunderstood. So I'll keep plugging at it until one day I have that AHA! moment.

 

[Terri]

When I try to express myself and the end result doesn't convey what I'm trying to get across, it is as frustrating as trying to find the right words and being totally misunderstood.

Oh, I hear you on that point, Kat! It's wonderful, and even exciting, when I think I have a good concept...and then my execution just falls flat. I disappoint myself quite often.

We're always our own worst critics, and I don't think we ever escape from that - or should try to. Keeps us working harder.

 

[KatShealy]

Oh, I hear you on that point, Kat! It's wonderful, and even exciting, when I think I have a good concept...and then my execution just falls flat. I disappoint myself quite often.

We're always our own worst critics, and I don't think we ever escape from that - or should try to. Keeps us working harder.

And since I'm self taught, looking for mistakes can be the best teacher.

 

[triss]

Artyczar & Terri - not to diminish your responses to Bartc, but I'm in the UK, and 'over-priced graffiti artist' is often a bit of a standard, tongue-in-cheek synonym for Banksy (who's probably well-past 'darling' territory now, and on his way to reaching national treasure status). The self-shredding work attracted huge interest and debate way beyond the art world - the last thing I can remember getting that kind of attention was Tracey Emin's 'My Bed'. It's interesting to wonder whether a 'straight' painting can or will ever make that kind of impact now - but I don't know much about the art climate outside the UK, or which artists are hitting the headlines elsewhere.

The discussion got a bit deep here, and I'm so sorry to read the kind of criticism and lack of support some of you have faced. I really only looked in to moan about the 'never use black' advice (I like black!).

I sometimes feel a bit unwelcome working outside a realistic style - but I've loved coming here to Creative Spark and seeing the variety of work posted. I'm still only just getting to know people's styles, but I hope no one has reason to feel uncomfortable - there are so many artists here whose work I want to learn more about!

 

[KatShealy]

Artyczar & Terri - not to diminish your responses to Bartc, but I'm in the UK, and 'over-priced graffiti artist' is often a bit of a standard, tongue-in-cheek synonym for Banksy (who's probably well-past 'darling' territory now, and on his way to reaching national treasure status). The self-shredding work attracted huge interest and debate way beyond the art world - the last thing I can remember getting that kind of attention was Tracey Emin's 'My Bed'. It's interesting to wonder whether a 'straight' painting can or will ever make that kind of impact now - but I don't know much about the art climate outside the UK, or which artists are hitting the headlines elsewhere.

The discussion got a bit deep here, and I'm so sorry to read the kind of criticism and lack of support some of you have faced. I really only looked in to moan about the 'never use black' advice (I like black!).

I sometimes feel a bit unwelcome working outside a realistic style - but I've loved coming here to Creative Spark and seeing the variety of work posted. I'm still only just getting to know people's styles, but I hope no one has reason to feel uncomfortable - there are so many artists here whose work I want to learn more about!

This is the first time I have participated in a forum. I have found that it gives voices to the art that I see, no matter the style. Art is so subjective. If we can't appreciate it's diversity, we are probably missing out on so much that we could learn from. I do have my limits...I have been offended before by truly disturbing pieces of work. But I just turn my head. No one is forcing me to look at it.

 

[E.J.H.]

I must say, I do like the idea of bands of 'marauding artists' roaming the land and cityscapes....
It has a kind of Douglas Adams/Terry Pratchett vibe to it!

 

[Triduana]

When I was growing up I didn't so much get bad advice, as strong opinions. My dad was a skilled artist and according to him, his way was the only way.
- Don't put loads of water on the paper, that's messy.
- You only need one brush.
- You only need three colours (he was a printer)
- You need to draw in every brick / stone in a wall to make it realistic.
- Don't make it too realistic, that's what cameras are for.
- Never leave brush strokes.
So I tried painting his way, and got very frustrated.

I had 2 art teachers. One told me there wasn't enough energy in my work. I tried putting more energy in my work, the other teacher told me my work didn't need it. I got even more frustrated.

There's no wonder I stopped painting when I left school and didn't start again for about 15 years. I'm now finding my own style.

My dad also told me to pay no attention to abstract work, because it doesn't mean anything and therefore there's no point to it. I'm ashamed to say I believed that for years. When I first moved to Edinburgh I visited the modern art gallery and I was in there for around 10 minutes. Since then I've done a lot of reading and looked at a lot of art and realised that even if you don't like something, you can still get something from it. If not the content, the colours, the composition, the reason behind it. I went back to that gallery a couple of years ago and made sure I looked at every single piece, and I was in there almost a whole day. Hell, was my dad wrong. I've actually got some ideas for abstract pieces that I want to try now.

I also make sure I go and look at temporary fencing around building sites in the city. Some really good artwork appears there.

I really only looked in to moan about the 'never use black' advice (I like black!).

I have three black pigments in my watercolour palette. I use Chinese white as well.