When Ink bleeds through acrylic on paper

[Art Podcasts]

Hey all- i've been working on an intricate ink-on-a-paper piece for a while- it's a smooth Fabriano paper, I think about 90 lbs.
The inks I mainly use are Tombow brush pens.

At the top of the paper, I didn't like the colors I used initially, so I started painting with white acrylic over it, first with a brush, then with an airbrush, but the ink has continued to bleed through, even after a few coats of a matte spray (in the middle and right areas of the page, the paint has mostly covered over the colors, in other words they've stuck).

Have you experienced something similar?
Should I be doing more coats? using a matte medium that's brushed on? using a white-out type of product?

Open to any insights if you've been here.
Thanks!

 

[Art Podcasts]

Hey all- i've been working on an intricate ink-on-a-paper piece for a while- it's a smooth Fabriano paper, I think about 90 lbs.
The inks I mainly use are Tombow brush pens.

At the top of the paper, I didn't like the colors I used initially, so I started painting with white acrylic over it, first with a brush, then with an airbrush, but the ink has continued to bleed through, even after a few coats of a matte spray (in the middle and right areas of the page, the paint has mostly covered over the colors, in other words they've stuck).

Have you experienced something similar?
Should I be doing more coats? using a matte medium that's brushed on? using a white-out type of product?

Open to any insights if you've been here.
Thanks!

If necessary I can add images so you can see it, but you can get the idea with words alone, fwiw

 

[Bartc]

I'm not sure what you're describing. Is the ink clearly showing the inked lines/images through the acrylic or have you somehow emulsified the ink into the acrylic and it's smearing?

 

[Art Podcasts]

I'm not sure what you're describing. Is the ink clearly showing the inked lines/images through the acrylic or have you somehow emulsified the ink into the acrylic and it's smearing?

I would say it's closer to the latter- ink has been emulsified into acrylic, and it's challenging getting it to set so I can spray more white over it to make that upper left area more like the lower middle area. Photo attached...

 

[Bartc]

Acrylic is so opaque when applied straight that I've never seen anything it couldn't cover successfully. I suspect your paint picked up some soluble elements of the ink you used and it spread. Try a thick coat of gesso over the whole thing and start over.

 

[Art Podcasts]

Acrylic is so opaque when applied straight that I've never seen anything it couldn't cover successfully. I suspect your paint picked up some soluble elements of the ink you used and it spread. Try a thick coat of gesso over the whole thing and start over.

Thank you for the insights!

 

[laf.art]

You might try a layer of varnish or medium before more paint. It's what I've learned to do over the years.

 

[Marc]

Sounds like a variation of SID (Support Induced Discoloration) For the first few weeks, until they harden up more, many acrylic polymers can pick up staining dissolvable elements from the support. Most often seen with darker woods and similarly darker woven fabrics such as jute. Or at least it's naturally more noticeable with these.

 

[txomsy]

What you describe sounds like either the ink wasn't fully dry, or the acrylic (water based?) was activating the ink when laid over it.

So, the first question is, what kind of ink and acrylic paint where you using?

Water based inks may be washable or permanent. The difference is that permanent inks react with the cellulose on the paper and this chemical reaction fixes them. If you later add water, they won't move (that's not totally true: chemically bound pigment won't move, but there are many oversaturated inks nowadays that have so much pigment that not all of it binds to the paper and can be washed by water).

Watercolorists know this very well: a washable ink will, er, well, wash with water, so if you layer a water based material (like watercolor), it will redissolve and mix with it. That's why people prefers permanent inks (e.g. iron-gall, nanopigments...) or oil/alcohol based inks for drawings that will be water-based painted over later.

What you describe sounds awfully reminiscent of using a washable ink with water-diluted acrylic.

Solutions? a) none with a washable ink and a water-based acrylic, b) use an opaque paint that is not water based, c) wash the ink entirely with water and start over with a permanent ink (but if the acrylic mixed with the ink and dried becoming permanent, then it may not be an option), D) I COULD BE WRONG AND ALL THIS ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. WATCH OUT FOR OTHER OPINIONS/EXPERIENCES. SPECIALLY BECAUSE I AM SPECULATING SINCE I DO NOT KNOW WHICH MATERIALS YOU USED!!!!!

 

[Art Podcasts]

What you describe sounds like either the ink wasn't fully dry, or the acrylic (water based?) was activating the ink when laid over it.

So, the first question is, what kind of ink and acrylic paint where you using?

Water based inks may be washable or permanent. The difference is that permanent inks react with the cellulose on the paper and this chemical reaction fixes them. If you later add water, they won't move (that's not totally true: chemically bound pigment won't move, but there are many oversaturated inks nowadays that have so much pigment that not all of it binds to the paper and can be washed by water).

Watercolorists know this very well: a washable ink will, er, well, wash with water, so if you layer a water based material (like watercolor), it will redissolve and mix with it. That's why people prefers permanent inks (e.g. iron-gall, nanopigments...) or oil/alcohol based inks for drawings that will be water-based painted over later.

What you describe sounds awfully reminiscent of using a washable ink with water-diluted acrylic.

Solutions? a) none with a washable ink and a water-based acrylic, b) use an opaque paint that is not water based, c) wash the ink entirely with water and start over with a permanent ink (but if the acrylic mixed with the ink and dried becoming permanent, then it may not be an option), D) I COULD BE WRONG AND ALL THIS ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. WATCH OUT FOR OTHER OPINIONS/EXPERIENCES. SPECIALLY BECAUSE I AM SPECULATING SINCE I DO NOT KNOW WHICH MATERIALS YOU USED!!!!!

Thank you for all of that great info.! Short answer regarding materials is that I used Tombow brush pens, that is the ink; and the acrylic is Golden titanium white, mixed with a little bit of high-flow medium so it's not too thick. I think what you wrote at the beginning is right: the acrylic activated the ink when laid over it...but I thought by airbrushing the paint over it I could get over that issue, but it wasn't effective for one particular area. Since then I've added a couple layers of matte varnish. I'll keep you posted on what happens next.
thanks again for your insights!

 

[txomsy]

Actually, I must apologize for ignoring the most obvious solution which you have already found: the easiest in these cases is to use a fixative (so underlying layers cannot affect top ones), let it dry, and then paint on top of it.

I am so used to fixatives I no longer think of them. MY FAULT. STUPID ME.