What Are You Listening To?

[musket]

I caught the Velvets, alas sans Nico, at Max's Kansas City in New York once. They were loud.

This is June Tabor's sizzling cover of All Tomorrow's Parties, with Oysterband. Not what you'd expect from a woman who is characterized as England's greatest "folk singer," which she is... among other things.

 

[stlukesguild]

The Velvets and the Doors were nothing alike, so not an East/West rivalry.

But you might say the same of the East/West rivalry in the visual arts. New York had the "rigorous" Abstract Expressionists... the New York School that included Kline, Motherwell, DeKooning, Rothko, etc... while in California you had the San Francisco figurative school of Diebenkorn, Park, and Bischoff...

... to say nothing about Robert Williams and the Lowbrow Art movement. I have a friend and former studio mate who continually suggests that my paintings might be better suited to a West Coast market... Hollywood, Vegas, etc...

 

[musket]

The two bands were nothing alike. You might as well hypothesize that there was a West/East Coast rivalry between the Grateful Dead and the New York Dolls. The Doors were a very polished act. The Velvets weren't.

Had there been such a rivalry, the Doors would have won hands down. The Velvets never achieved the commercial success of the Doors. That being said, the Velvets were arguably much more influential.

Jim Morrison had a very good voice, intense sexual charisma and a penchant for ponderous lyrics. Lou Reed was well named; he had a reedy voice. His lyrics were much more straightforward. Can you imagine Morrison singing Sweet Jane, or Reed singing Strange Days?

Nico of course also had intense sexual charisma, but she was an adjunct to the band. Not a few of her numbers were actually very sweet and gentle-- can you imagine Morrison singing I'll Be Your Mirror? Or Nico singing Break on Through to the Other Side, except as a parody?

This is the very antithesis of the Doors.

 

[stlukesguild]

Can you imagine Morrison singing Sweet Jane, or Reed singing Strange Days?

Perhaps... I quite like the Cowboy Junkies version of Sweet Jane.

Cowboy Junkies: Sweet Jane

Now Lou Reed singing Touch Me... that I can't see.

 

[musket]

A nice cover.

I can't see Morrison singing I'm Waiting for My Man either. He didn't have the requisite sense of sly, warped humor.

 

[stlukesguild]

More Bach on guitar. The second disc (actually a two-disc set) would be good for Brian. He'd be able to hear the great Sonatas & Partitas for violin... without the violin.

 

[musket]

And now for something completely different.... the second clip is funky as all get out. This guy has other stuff worth checking out, including a beautifully sensitive and expressive rendition of Yesterday. One of my old classical guitar clients recommended him.

 

[musket]

More Bach on guitar. The second disc (actually a two-disc set) would be good for Brian. He'd be able to hear the great Sonatas & Partitas for violin... without the violin.

Paul Galbraith is pretty well known... his first eight string was built by David Rubio in a tiny little shop at 66 Carmine St in the West Village, later occupied by Michael Gurian, at whose factory on Grand St in SoHo I later worked for a starting salary of twenty bucks a week under the table, and then by Lucien Barnes, my first teacher in guitar building. Could be the same guitar.

The other guy I hadn't heard of. Can't say I like his playing much. Stiff and clunky.

 

[musket]

Segovia once said he would kill to have Sabicas's right thumb. This is definitely not from 1945.

Another bulerias.

Totally mindblowing. I have no clue how anybody can play this music and be so completely relaxed. It's like his hands are just doing it themselves while he's watching. His left hand articulation is flawless, and as for the right... WTF?

 

[Annie]

Heh...this afternoon I started out with Phil Ochs and then Freddy Fender. It morphed into DoWop and 60s Motown. Later, I played some Buena Vista Social Club and now I'm listening to Vivaldi. I'm into listening to Vivaldi enough at the moment that I'm going to have to come back later to listen to the other selections upthread, some of which look very interesting.

 

[musket]

Phil Ochs, jeez, the poor guy.

Long as we're gonna do that era... ground breaking in so many ways, with wonderful electric guitar by Bruce Langhorne.

Their best known tune, sung to stardom later by Judy Collins. Richard was already gone by the time I was old enough to get into the Village scene, but unlike her very famous sister, Mimi was a total sweetheart. RIP always to a good and gentle soul. I always loved her voice.

 

[stlukesguild]

Galbraith's performance is fine enough... but Bach composed the Sonatas and Partitas for violin... and I've yet to hear anything surpass the finest performances on violin:

 

[stlukesguild]

Annie... what are you listening to by Vivaldi? He has such a broad oeuvre.

 

[musket]

I quite agree about the violin.

 

[xie-kitchin]

OK, I'll join in... I was listening to this album yesterday, it's one I like when I'm plowing through lots of work. Thin White Rope is a criminally underrated/overlooked band IMO.

 

[stlukesguild]

Of the three "giants" of classical music... Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven... I probably listen to Beethoven the least. Perhaps this is due to all those Beethoven fanboys I met over the years on Classical Music forums who were certain Beethoven was unassailable while Mozart was lightweight, and Schubert next to nothing. Most of them rarely listened to vocal music and so missed out on Mozart's operas and choral works and Schubert's lieder which were at the heart of their oeuvres. It may also be that as I came to classical music through my mother who was a soprano in the Lutheran church choir, I have a great love of vocal music... and Beethoven's oeuvre is sparse in this genre... at least in comparison to Bach and Mozart. Whatever. I still listen to a hell of a lot of Beethoven... and these two piano concertos are among the finest ever penned and Gilels' performance of them is among the finest ever recorded.

 

[brianvds]

More Bach on guitar. The second disc (actually a two-disc set) would be good for Brian. He'd be able to hear the great Sonatas & Partitas for violin... without the violin.

No doubt it's sacrilege, but indeed, it's the only way I can listen to Bach's solo violin work.

 

[brianvds]

Of the three "giants" of classical music... Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven... I probably listen to Beethoven the least. Perhaps this is due to all those Beethoven fanboys I met over the years on Classical Music forums who were certain Beethoven was unassailable while Mozart was lightweight, and Schubert next to nothing. Most of them rarely listened to vocal music and so missed out on Mozart's operas and choral works and Schubert's lieder which were at the heart of their oeuvres. It may also be that as I came to classical music through my mother who was a soprano in the Lutheran church choir, I have a great love of vocal music... and Beethoven's oeuvre is sparse in this genre... at least in comparison to Bach and Mozart. Whatever. I still listen to a hell of a lot of Beethoven... and these two piano concertos are among the finest ever penned and Gilels' performance of them is among the finest ever recorded.

Of the three giants, Beethoven is in some ways the most "abstract," even though his music often has non-musical sources and references. He composed quite a lot of vocal music, but relatively little of it is still played, and it was probably not his strongest point. It is his mastery of "pure", instrumental music that he is chiefly revered for.

He was perhaps one of the first composers to understand that orchestration is a thing. When Mozart needed a flute concerto, he had no compunctions about transcribing an oboe concerto for flute. But when Beethoven specifies oboe, you need an oboe. Even more so when he insists on contrabassoon or piccolo. He also seems to have been very forward-looking with this stuff, and kind of counted on better pianos being produced - you actually can't really play stuff like the Hammerklavier on an 18th century fortepiano. Similarly, you need a decent orchestra - good luck performing one of his symphonies with the local high school band.

I sometimes get the impression that he knew full well vocal music wasn't his strongest point, and instead of letting it go he kept on hammering away at it, laboring for years, through one version of Fidelio after the other, attempting to do what Mozart seemed to glide through so effortlessly. He pretty much invented the notion of a song cycle, but can An die ferne Geliebte compare to Schubert's work in this genre? And can Missa Solemnis, as great as it is, compare to the better examples of the genre by some other composers?

I am always somewhat in two minds about Beethoven, and I think I know why: the man is exhausting, at least from his middle period onward. Thus, when I have the energy, I think he's the greatest musical genius who ever walked this earth. But only when I have the energy. Nowadays, I mostly listen to his first period works, almost all of which are masterpieces in their own right, but do not carry so heavily on their own weighty message.

 

[stlukesguild]

Of the three giants, Beethoven is in some ways the most "abstract...

I've always found Bach to be the most abstract. I can see why his reputation returned with a vengeance in the 20th century. His music is almost mathematical at times... the musical structures are almost architectural. Listening to one of his fugues I can picture the interior of a Gothic cathedral. Beethoven was the master of the late Classical period. He points toward Romanticism with his emotional impact and shifts in emotion... but the symphonies or sonatas are still structured on classical forms... albeit greatly expanded and stretched. Schubert, on the other hand, is a true Romantic. His greatest achievements are his lieder which rarely employ any classical forms. He points to Chopin and Schumann and Mahler with his symphonies.

He composed quite a lot of vocal music, but relatively little of it is still played, and it was probably not his strongest point. It is his mastery of "pure", instrumental music that he is chiefly revered for.

Yes. Among his major vocal compositions you have Christus am Ölberge, the Mass in C major, the Missa solemnis, the song cycle An die ferne Geliebte, the Choral Fantasy, the final movement of the 9th Symphony and the opera Fidelio. Mozart has 7 major operas alone: Idomeneo, Die Entführung aus dem Serail, Le nozze di Figaro, Don Giovanni, Così fan tutte, La clemenza di Tito, and Die Zauberflöte. Among his other major vocal works we might count: the Great Mass in C minor, the Coronation Mass, the Missa brevis or Piccolomesse, the Requiem Mass in D minor, the Exsultate, jubilate, Ave verum corpus, and a couple of dozen Concert Arias among a good many other vocal compositions. And Bach? Where would we begin?

He was perhaps one of the first composers to understand that orchestration is a thing. When Mozart needed a flute concerto, he had no compunctions about transcribing an oboe concerto for flute. But when Beethoven specifies oboe, you need an oboe.

I agree that he is among the first pointing in this direction... albeit not yet Wagner, Strauss, Ravel, or Rimsky-Korsakov.

He also seems to have been very forward-looking with this stuff, and kind of counted on better pianos being produced - you actually can't really play stuff like the Hammerklavier on an 18th century fortepiano.

Yes... he frequently pushed the limitations of the instruments.

Similarly, you need a decent orchestra - good luck performing one of his symphonies with the local high school band.

This was also true of Bach... and most Baroque music... which fully embraced virtuosity far more than the later Classical Period. Bach, unfortunately, was stuck with the abilities of his local choir and orchestra... and you have to wonder how many could actually play his works for solo violin or cello. At least Bach himself could play the keyboard and organ works.

I sometimes get the impression that he knew full well vocal music wasn't his strongest point, and instead of letting it go he kept on hammering away at it, laboring for years, through one version of Fidelio after the other, attempting to do what Mozart seemed to glide through so effortlessly. He pretty much invented the notion of a song cycle, but can An die ferne Geliebte compare to Schubert's work in this genre? And can Missa Solemnis, as great as it is, compare to the better examples of the genre by some other composers?

Beethoven's song cycle is very, very fine but Schubert took the entire lied further... like Beethoven himself did with the simple piano sonata. In Schubert, the piano is no longer a mere accompaniment to the vocal but rather an equal partner... engaged in a sort of duet. The piano frequently establishes the mood illustrated in the lyrics.

I am always somewhat in two minds about Beethoven, and I think I know why: the man is exhausting, at least from his middle period onward. Thus, when I have the energy, I think he's the greatest musical genius who ever walked this earth. But only when I have the energy. Nowadays, I mostly listen to his first period works, almost all of which are masterpieces in their own right, but do not carry so heavily on their own weighty message.

But surely you know that Wagner was the greatest musical genius who ever walked this earth.

 

[musket]

Kill the wabbit, da da da DA da...