Callous comment?

[Bartc]

Saturday our plein air group was out painting at a state park. One of our painters was creating another of her marvelous renderings of an old gnarled tree. A middle aged or older woman was passing on the path and dropped an inappropriate comment.

"That's pretty good for a beginner", she said. According to our painter, she appeared to be serious as she walked on past.

Our painter was stunned, mystified, maybe a little hurt and confused by the comment. She recounted the incident to our group at lunch and we joked with her about it to ease the sting.

She is anything but a "beginner". She's quite an experienced and accomplished painter, which shows in her beautiful work, and that tree painting was no exception.

Usually passers by are kinder in their comments. Most say either automatically or meaningfully, "beautiful". Kids love anything they see you painting. We hadn't experienced the negative or back handed compliment before.

Was the lady callous? Was she ignorant? Was she somehow intending to be encouraging? Who knows.

Have you ever encountered this kind of rude or crude comments when painting in public?

 

[stlukesguild]

I have had far worse comments. I only give any serious consideration to those whose opinions I value... and even then... my opinion is most important.

 

[Bartc]

I have had far worse comments. I only give any serious consideration to those whose opinions I value... and even then... my opinion is most important.

Agreed on your own judgement, saddened that you or anyone would receive negative comments unsolicited from passers by. We have never encountered this that I know of in a decade of painting en plein air.

 

[stlukesguild]

I had a visitor to our studio who had come to visit one of my studio partners. On the way out, he tells me, "If I owned one of your paintings, I'd never be able to stop masturbating"

 

[Bartc]

I had a visitor to our studio who had come to visit one of my studio partners. On the way out, he tells me, "If I owned one of your paintings, I'd never be able to stop masturbating"

Maybe we should look at more of your work! LOL Now that's some comment.

 

[stlukesguild]

Over the years I have painted a good number of nudes... but I don't think any of the paintings I have done in the last 20 years are more "suggestive" than the nudes by Rubens, Titian, Renoir, Ingres, or Modigliani... and certainly artists such as Klimt, Schiele, Lucian Freud, and even Michelangelo made paintings that were more "explicit".

-Autumn Eve

-Venus & Psyche

This second painting was the last nude I painted... and I believe it dates from 2019.

 

[stlukesguild]

I've long suspected that the scale of these paintings... the figures are life-sized and the paintings measure 46"x80"... is what makes them seem more confrontational if not aggressive. They aren't little nudes that can be easily hidden away in a secret cabinet like many were in the 18th and 19th centuries.

 

[Enyaw]

Personally, if I couldn’t take a snide remark, I would not expose myself. I don’t think the remark would bother a self assured artist. Might spark a smile or a four letter verb between go and yourself.

 

[stevenD]

(To the OP): Being a smart-ass and extremely cynical, I don't think I would have accepted that type of comment.

I would have responded with something like:

"Thanks for the comment Picasso, that's what all fat old people say"...!

But, in hindsight, it is probably best to hold ones tongue...

 

[john]

Personally, if I couldn’t take a snide remark, I would not expose myself. I don’t think the remark would bother a self assured artist. Might spark a smile or a four letter verb between go and yourself.

I always get snide remarks when I expose myself in public.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[brianvds]

Reply with "Yeah, I do always struggle a bit with gnarled old things. Like you and that tree."

It occurs to me that what the lady actually said was "Not bad for a beginning." Perhaps the comment was misheard?

But so it goes with any and all people who work from life in public, no matter how good they are. There will always be snide comments from people who have never held a pencil in their life. And of course the ubiquitous "why don't you just use a camera?"

The British cartoonist Norman Thelwell was rather famous for his brilliant depictions of horses. Once, while out sketching horses, he heard someone behind him saying "He thinks he's that Thelwell guy."

No people are ever quite as hated by those who do nothing than those who do or create.

 

[Bartc]

Reply with "Yeah, I do always struggle a bit with gnarled old things. Like you and that tree."

It occurs to me that what the lady actually said was "Not bad for a beginning." Perhaps the comment was misheard?

But so it goes with any and all people who work from life in public, no matter how good they are. There will always be snide comments from people who have never held a pencil in their life. And of course the ubiquitous "why don't you just use a camera?"

The British cartoonist Norman Thelwell was rather famous for his brilliant depictions of horses. Once, while out sketching horses, he heard someone behind him saying "He thinks he's that Thelwell guy."

No people are ever quite as hated by those who do nothing than those who do or create.

I had wondered myself if she had misheard it, but I'm doubtful. One never does know.

 

[stlukesguild]

I went to art school when critiques could still be quite brutal. One of the professors told us in a smaller group that such critiques were intended in part to weed out those who didn't have the passion. He went on to note that grad school, galleries, and critiques could be far more brutal and you needed to be ready for this.

 

[Bartc]

I went to art school when critiques could still be quite brutal. One of the professors told us in a smaller group that such critiques were intended in part to weed out those who didn't have the passion. He went on to note that grad school, galleries, and critiques could be far more brutal and you needed to be ready for this.

That kind of hazing - not just legit criticism - exists in many schools and professions. IMHO, it's unnecessary, unhelpful and sometimes downright inhumane. The notion that beating the crap out of hopefuls is "good for them", "makes them stronger", and weeds out the incipient failures is pure BS. (OK, maybe it's necessary for training soldiers, but amateur artists are noncombatants!)

Yes, I know they did that. Yes, galleries and audiences can be very cruel in their critiques too. But discouraging someone from trying is not the way to go. Genius or just plain talent/skill is not solely the province of the emotionally resilient in the face of verbal/psychological assault.

Back to the original post, why should anyone be negatively critical when unsolicited toward someone who is out in nature enjoying creating art and the moment? At the very least it's incredibly rude, presumptuous and offensive in my book.

 

[Artyczar]

I feel like I've heard the worst of the worst. I've never replied with fire, even though I've wanted to. I usually think of the greatest, most cleverly snide comebacks minutes after the person is gone. But would it have been better to make them feel bad (if it even would)? Probably not. In the very moment, I'm either disassociated from the shock or something, or I accept that's their opinion. It's art, and that's their right. Am I supposed to explain away every reason for why my work is the way it is?

That doesn't mean I don't get hurt. During the Open Studios, I was quite devastated. Not my audience this last year. I hardly made a few hundred bucks. Even the year before, when I made more money than all the other artists, the people were brutal. "Where do you get off asking these prices for such easy paintings???" "Are you serious calling this art?" ...I got all kinds of horrendous comments. These are the mellow ones. I've had people spit on my art before some many years ago. The asking about the prices is a common comment. But am I supposed to shove my resume in their face? I have to stand there and take it.

I often want to say, "Look, I don't go to your place of work and get all up in arms about your wages (which are guaranteed, by the way), and make you feel like you don't deserve it!" But I just shrug my shoulders and stay quiet because I don't think they want to hear what I have to say, and it's not going to get any traction if I say anything anyway.

 

[Bartc]

That's just plain rude, Ayin. Yes, you did put your work out there for viewing and hopefully for sales. That doesn't mean you put it out there for critique or insult. Very sorry you had to put up with that.

"There's no accounting for taste," is the old saw and it holds true. Yet that's not the same as inflicting your differences unnecessarily on another's work - unless solicited - and even then not for insult.

"What makes this painting worth that price?" Well, it's a legit question that it seems nobody can answer other than either, "that's what I charge" or "that's what people are willing to pay me for it". But when accompanied by signals that you dislike it or you think the artist is a bull shitter, well, that's another story in my book.

I certainly have my opinions, and Ayin you know I'm not shy about them. But I would NOT state the negative one to or in front of the artist. That's where I draw a line. Others' boundaries may differ of course.

 

[Artyczar]

My art isn't for everyone, and I know that. I have learned to ignore the hostility. When I see that someone likes my art but says they just can't afford that high of a price, I work it out with them so they can afford it. I'm so super flexible. This is usually how I sell art. I just make sure they do like it, or love it. Then I will find out what they can afford. I'll either come as close to what is easier for them, do a payment plan, or both. It's about opening a friendly conversation. You can never start from a place of negativity. That's no good. I'm pretty good at knowing the difference.

When someone asks questions about why the price without any critical connotations attached, I'm happy to explain my history, the materials, and what those sizes have sold for in the recent past so they don't think I'm just some crazy person.

 

[Bartc]

The practice of a good business person as well as a sophisticated lover of art, Ayin.

BTW, since I have sold very little and don't live by art sales, my experience has been with relinquishing any piece to a friend. But similar to your own, I want to know that they will enjoy it and hang it, or I'll keep it for myself. I tell them they can have it on "permanent loan": as long as they will frame and hang it they can keep it, but if for any reason or none at all they don't want to do that or tire of it, send it back home to me. Nobody has sent one back yet!

 

[Artyczar]

That is so awesome. I like the permanent loan idea. I may steal that.

Although, when I was in a band, I allowed one of the singers to hang a bunch of my paintings in her house because it was a rather large home. Many years later, the work grew on her, and she decided to buy them all. Of course, I gave her a giant discount on them and she paid them off over time. I loved that she loved them, and also got them on the cheap. I even threw some in as gifts. It got her to start collecting original art from other artists as well.

 

[stlukesguild]

That kind of hazing - not just legit criticism - exists in many schools and professions. IMHO, it's unnecessary, unhelpful and sometimes downright inhumane. The notion that beating the crap out of hopefuls is "good for them", "makes them stronger", and weeds out the incipient failures is pure BS. (OK, maybe it's necessary for training soldiers, but amateur artists are noncombatants!)

Yes, I know they did that. Yes, galleries and audiences can be very cruel in their critiques too. But discouraging someone from trying is not the way to go. Genius or just plain talent/skill is not solely the province of the emotionally resilient in the face of verbal/psychological assault.

I have mixed feelings about harsh critiques. There are student works that are clearly substandard or lazy. Should the teachers continue to encourage students who lack any real ability and might be far better off thinking of alternative career directions? Its a difficult situation... especially when we consider that many truly fine artists were not immediately recognized because their work did not adhere to the standards of the time and place. I responded well to such brutal crits. I would go home thinking, "Oh yeah?! I'll show them."

I remember one sculptural piece I did that combined ideas from the three previous works... all of which had been well-received. This new work however was absolutely reamed in critique... as if it had absolutely so redeeming qualities at all. I am certain that many of the students saw this as chance to knock someone down a peg or two after a number of glowing crits. I also recognized that a good deal of the criticism was valid. But I was able to handle such negative criticism. I went home thinking, "You Mother F**ckers, I'll show you!"

I had a close girl friend (not a girlfriend) who did not have such. She was a marvelous painter and great printmaker. Unfortunately, her boyfriend at the time felt that traditional drawing/painting alone was outdated and he pushed her to begin adding collage/assemblage elements into her work. When she showed this new body of work at a critique she was torn to shreds. It left her devastated. She needed to take a week off school and go on a road trip to get her mind back together. Teachers need to gain a sense of their students and what sort of criticism they respond best to.