Photographer Sally Mann accused of pornography (again)

[Terri]

Apparently some attendees of a show that Mann is part of got upset.

Mann's work has today been seized from the Modern Art Museum of Ft Worth, TX.

Yee-haw.

 

[Marc]

I can't speak to what was in the exhibition but from a book at the local library twenty years ago, Mann's work seemed pretty non erotic let alone pornographic. If I recall it was a sort of a matter of fact black-n-white documentary reportage of nudist colony family members over the years.

 

[txomsy]

From "PetaPixel":

"However, after a reporter from The Dallas Express visited the exhibit and accused the museum of “promoting child porn”, authorities have begun attacking Mann and the museum. The online newspaper shared photos of Mann’s work displayed at the museum that show a naked girl jumping on a table and a boy with his genitals exposed and liquid running down his body."

Nowadays one should be wary of which public attends exhibitions and where are they held. Just imagine what David Hamilton's work would have sparked in some places today.

 

[Terri]

I can't speak to what was in the exhibition but from a book at the local library twenty years ago, Mann's work seemed pretty non erotic let alone pornographic. If I recall it was a sort of a matter of fact black-n-white documentary reportage of nudist colony family members over the years.

A lot of her older work documented her children at their family summer retreat. From what I recall, there was an old farmhouse on the rural property that they went to - it had no electricity and only a well. Very rustic. The kids generally swam in the river and played outside naked, and she took to photographing them, lugging her 8x10 view camera around. They had relatives nearby and the kids played naked or very stripped down there, too. The images I've seen shows a lot of clothed adults sitting around in the heat, with or without naked children running around.

This older body of work caused Mann grief before. It was all well litigated back then. The article doesn't specify if this exhibit is including that same body of work or more recent stuff. I've not read about family members living as an actual nudist colony.

 

[Marc]

I've not read about family members living as an actual nudist colony.

They probably didn't and it was misreported in a news article I read decades ago or perhaps I just misremembered or presumed those many years ago.

 

[Marc]

On a related matter, many years back in Australia someone exhibited photos of naked children in an art gallery. Again, I can't pass personal judgement on them as I never saw them, but it stirred up a hell of a fuss, perhaps in this case the fuss was legitimate. The Prime minister Paul Rudd passed a bill requiring all children clothed or not in art either photos, painting or sculpture to have written consent of the children's legal guardians.
Now at the time many of my miniature paintings had country and town scenes including children. (One had a mother and child on a farm with the child pointing up at piloted balloon. The title, "Yes Dear Just Like Parliament.")
I was told at the time of the requirement that if I was to sell in Australia, I'd need these signatures. Signatures? The always clothed figures were never more than 3/4 of an inch high and never had living models let alone parents.
So, I never sold in Australian Galleries. Here's the funny thing, though I continued to paint in this same style and often still do, without ever being consciously (until now) aware of it, I've never depicted another child again. Isn't that odd?

 

[bethany]

On a related matter, many years back in Australia someone exhibited photos of naked children in an art gallery. Again, I can't pass personal judgement on them as I never saw them, but it stirred up a hell of a fuss, perhaps in this case the fuss was legitimate. The Prime minister Paul Rudd passed a bill requiring all children clothed or not in art either photos, painting or sculpture to have written consent of the children's legal guardians.
Now at the time many of my miniature paintings had country and town scenes including children. (One had a mother and child on a farm with the child pointing up at piloted balloon. The title, "Yes Dear Just Like Parliament.")
I was told at the time of the requirement that if I was to sell in Australia, I'd need these signatures. Signatures? The always clothed figures were never more than 3/4 of an inch high and never had living models let alone parents.
So, I never sold in Australian Galleries. Here's the funny thing, though I continued to paint in this same style and often still do, without ever being consciously (until now) aware of it, I've never depicted another child again. Isn't that odd?

I am Australian- and have seen many Bill Henson photos- including the controversial ones. Not even a hint of obscenity in my eyes. The photos he takes are beautiful and edgy. He was taken to court and then exonerated of all charges. The Prime Minister at the time was Kevin Rudd (Paul Rudd is an American actor).

article in his defence

 

[Marc]

I am Australian- and have seen many Bill Henson photos- including the controversial ones. Not even a hint of obscenity in my eyes. The photos he takes are beautiful and edgy. He was taken to court and then exonerated of all charges. The Prime Minister at the time was Kevin Rudd (Paul Rudd is an American actor).

article in his defence

Opps, I guess the Paul Rudd name is naturally more at the forefront of mind. What little I can apparently trust my memory; they never even mentioned the artist's name in New Zealand. Just a lot of people on the television saying things like, "Oh my God it was terrible!" and "It shouldn't be allowed!"

 

[chadwig]

From "PetaPixel":

"However, after a reporter from The Dallas Express visited the exhibit and accused the museum of “promoting child porn”, authorities have begun attacking Mann and the museum. The online newspaper shared photos of Mann’s work displayed at the museum that show a naked girl jumping on a table and a boy with his genitals exposed and liquid running down his body."

Nowadays one should be wary of which public attends exhibitions and where are they held. Just imagine what David Hamilton's work would have sparked in some places today.

Simple nudity is not inherently sexual. His claims say a lot more about how the "reporter" views children than how Mann views them. What a weird society to live in—where sexual themes and actual pornography are culturally ubiquitous and yet, somehow, innocent nudity is seen as categorically pornographic. Having been to many naturist venues I can report that the safest place for a child to be is among people practicing social nudity. Most require background checks to even gain entry and there is a hyper-vigilance due to the understanding that society at large does not understand the difference between nudity and sexuality.

 

[txomsy]

That reminds me, I have some wonderful pictures of kids in my personal collection. No nudity whatsoever, just kids playing, and not a single face is visible or any "weird" context that I can tell. But I've always been wary of publishing any of those: one never knows what the viewer will see in their potentially twisted mind.

In general, I guide myself by old "Panoramio (anyone remembers it?)" rules when publishing on the Net: no recognizable people, nothing contestable, everything aseptic... and even so, sometimes I have crossed dangerous lines and hit unexpected sensitivities.

I agree, these responses often tell more about the viewer than the author, just because there are more viewers than authors. Which does not imply either is right. Maybe the one with a sickly twisted mind is me. Could well be though I think not. But just in case...

 

[Artyczar]

I have those Sally Mann books, and I can't see how anyone could view them as child pornography. That is gross.
I have a good friend in London--semi-famous photographer who uses his son and a couple of his friends as his subjects (not even nude!), and he get this same kind of crap about his pictures. It's awful. He gets hate mail and harassment all the time.

 

[stlukesguild]

I have those Sally Mann books, and I can't see how anyone could view them as child pornography. That is gross.
I have a good friend in London--semi-famous photographer who uses his son and a couple of his friends as his subjects (not even nude!), and he get this same kind of crap about his pictures. It's awful. He gets hate mail and harassment all the time.

We have more than our share of conservative extremists who assume that nudity as a whole is pornographic. Pedophilia has become the boogie monster of our time with many finding everywhere except where it actually exists.

 

[brianvds]

I have those Sally Mann books, and I can't see how anyone could view them as child pornography. That is gross.
I have a good friend in London--semi-famous photographer who uses his son and a couple of his friends as his subjects (not even nude!), and he get this same kind of crap about his pictures. It's awful. He gets hate mail and harassment all the time.

We have more than our share of conservative extremists who assume that nudity as a whole is pornographic. Pedophilia has become the boogie monster of our time with many finding everywhere except where it actually exists.

People often refer to such as "Victorian." But the weird thing is, when it comes to nudity society has, in some ways, become much, MUCH more prudish than the Victorians ever were.

 

[Nelson_H]

I just looked through her work. She does sexualize young girls. The average person would see that as child porn.

 

[Rikard]

We do live in sad times indeed.

 

[txomsy]

I just looked through her work. She does sexualize young girls. The average person would see that as child porn.

Can't see how. Haven't seen one that can be said so. I suppose it depends on what each one defines as "sexual".

 

[stlukesguild]

just looked through her work. She does sexualize young girls. The average person would see that as child porn.

The “average person” may just be an idiot… especially when it comes to art. There are certainly a good many who are easily manipulated into being outraged by politicians, religious leaders, the media, social media, etc… This is especially true when it comes to art… and even more so when involving anything dealing with children.

 

[Artyczar]

I just looked through her work. She does sexualize young girls. The average person would see that as child porn.

I don't see where you get that or how you can make a judgment call on the "average person."

 

[Nelson_H]

I don't see where you get that or how you can make a judgment call on the "average person."

read stlukesguild reply that answers everything.

​

 

[Nelson_H]

example from a few years ago. an interesting read.

David Statue Gets His Penis Censored at the Dubai Expo - and It's Not the First Time

David Statue Gets His Penis Censored at the Dubai Expo – and It’s Not the First Time

A replica of Michelangelo's David on display in the Italian pavilion at Dubai Expo 2020 has had its penis covered for modesty reasons.

matadornetwork.com