Question re cad reds

Enyaw

I think I am, therefore I am, I think.
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1,842
PR108cadmium scarlet
cadmium red light
Winsor & Newton 006
PR108cadmium red deep*
cadmium scarlet
cadmium red light
Winsor & Newton 006
On Winsor Newton they seem to be the same number with a different name.

Most manufactures have a facts page and give the pigment numbers, color charts, etc. Google is a good research tool as well: as long as you do a good research and don't stop at the first solution. Lots of bad info around the web.

For color info this this site:
Handprint
 

musket

Well-known member
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947
The Color Index (in this case PR108) indicates that this is the same pigment regardless of the different descriptive names. But this doesn't make much sense in the case of W&N. There is obviously a difference between cad red light and cad red deep.

I don't know what the asterisk signifies.
 

16ga

Well-known member
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177
The Color Index (in this case PR108) indicates that this is the same pigment regardless of the different descriptive names. But this doesn't make much sense in the case of W&N. There is obviously a difference between cad red light and cad red deep.
From my understanding PR108 comes in different shades even though it has the same label.
 

Enyaw

I think I am, therefore I am, I think.
Messages
1,842
Actually, Winsor Newton now have a Cad free Scarlet and a cad free deep red and they are different numbers and different hues.
 

Bongo

Well-known member
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529
golden acrylic has something similar with cad yellow light and primrose light
both py 35 and 77205
 

P. Barrie

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421
There are different processing (heating and addition of other elements, etc.) of the pigments that result in different hues of the base pigment. Hence PR108 Cadmium Red, is common to Cad Red Light, medium, deep, vermillion, scarlet, or whatever else the Mfg. decides to name the color based on the chemical composition of PR108. I would imagine that not all pigments are created equal, depending on quality/ purity, because from my experience, colors of the same name / pigment number vary from Mfg. to Mfg., and behave differently. I stick with one or two MFGs per single pigment color(s) so I know what to expect in mixes. Particularly with Cad Yellow Lemon/pale, my opaque primary yellow.
 
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ntl

Contributing Member
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780
Thanks for all the info, and I do use, have consulted Art Pigment data base for years. My error--I didn't ask for the info I wanted, which I think, is, if the two hues, cadmium scarlet and cadmium deep, are side by side, will those hues be similar/the same?
I have cad deep, and one artist highly recommends cad scarlet🤔
 

16ga

Well-known member
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177
It depends on the brands. If they’re both from the same brand they should be different. If they’re from different brands then they could be anything.

Blick has color swatches on their site for the brands they carry. Its not as good as seeing them in person but you compare the colors there.
 

P. Barrie

Well-known member
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421
It depends on the brands. If they’re both from the same brand they should be different. If they’re from different brands then they could be anything.
Yes, that’s the point I was trying to make. I saw one brand of Cad Scarlet that used Cad Red and Cad Yellow. Reds vary in their leaning to orange (yellow) depending on the pigment(s) used and processing. Pyrrole Red (PR 254) is a pretty good middle red, not leaning to violet (blue) or yellow.
 

WFMartin

Well-known member
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177
As P. Barrie mentioned, Pigment ID numbers represent only a rough indication of the actual color. The pigment Identification Number is, well,......the identification of the PIGMENT, and not necessarily the color. As someone mentioned, PR108 represents many different colors, even though the pigment identification number identifies it as a cadmium pigment.

Cad Red Light, Cad Red Medium, and Cad Red Deep are each a different color, but do have the same Pigment ID Number. The color that is created from such a pigment is totally dependent upon the method in which that pigment is processed.

However, Pigment ID Numbers can't always compete against paint color names, when it comes to confusing the artist. For example there is a color called "Cinnebar", which sometimes represents a "RED", and sometimes represents a "GREEN". Or, in the case of Old Holland, who names many of their colors after the towns which made them famous, such as "Scheveningen Blue". Only Old Holland, and God would know the actual color of this paint, if it were not for the pigment ID number.

While not totally accurate at identifying the color of the paint, Pigment ID's are, in fact, usually a rather good indicator. And, MUCH better than the names that the manufacturers tack on to the labels.
 

Lazarus

Well-known member
Messages
217
As P. Barrie mentioned, Pigment ID numbers represent only a rough indication of the actual color. The pigment Identification Number is, well,......the identification of the PIGMENT, and not necessarily the color. As someone mentioned, PR108 represents many different colors, even though the pigment identification number identifies it as a cadmium pigment.

Cad Red Light, Cad Red Medium, and Cad Red Deep are each a different color, but do have the same Pigment ID Number. The color that is created from such a pigment is totally dependent upon the method in which that pigment is processed.

However, Pigment ID Numbers can't always compete against paint color names, when it comes to confusing the artist. For example there is a color called "Cinnebar", which sometimes represents a "RED", and sometimes represents a "GREEN". Or, in the case of Old Holland, who names many of their colors after the towns which made them famous, such as "Scheveningen Blue". Only Old Holland, and God would know the actual color of this paint, if it were not for the pigment ID number.

While not totally accurate at identifying the color of the paint, Pigment ID's are, in fact, usually a rather good indicator. And, MUCH better than the names that the manufacturers tack on to the labels.
Well explained.
 
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